Purpose Driven Life Question

[Jannee]

This was a while ago so I don't recall what I disagreed with. Half of my PDL book is marked up so we would be here ALL day long if we were to debate this stuff. I can debate practically any page. I will bet my page is different from your's just to make it harder to compare it though. But it can be done.
When you looked many of the scriptures up, it just didn't mean what R.W. wanted it to. I don't consider this an opinion but a fact. This is why the book is so controversial.
On the flipside, I will say I have been around a few former Saddleback people who were formerly high up in the church and they are wonderful, godly people. My first bible study was with a former Saddlebacker, a godly woman who created a great ministry. The book also brings many people to the lord, I don't think many would deny that. I also don't have any reason to deny the fruits of his work, the people are genuine even if I don't like some of the book. They all feel R.W is a Christian. This is why I am choosing to use it for our new bible study. I am also adding photo copied pages of alot of the errors and things I found.

 

[Jannee]

R.W has a church plant in my town that has flourished. The folks there are wonderful, godly folks so I can't see how R.W would be any different.
Good Point tinytim. We aren't going to agree with everything a person says, and no one can say anything perfectly, not even a pastor.

 

[Jannee]

Oops sorry, I really repeated myself. I had better pay more attention and go back and re-read my posts. This is my first experience with boards.

 

[webdog]

I really would like to see all of these Scriptures posted using multiple versions that are supposedly taken out of context. It's easy to jump on the bash RW bandwagon and make these claims...now back it up.

 

[BroShane]

The first day, RW uses Romans 8:6 from "The Message" and that translation/version gives a totally different meaning in the context that Warren uses it. In the first day of study, he says the purpose of the book is not self-help, but becoming what God created you to be. The error is that he does not say that the context of Romans 8:6 is about those who are belivers already (later in the chapter we read about nothing being able to separate us from the love of Christ). He then, in the same section, says that we can be believers, but he uses Romans 8:6 as if to say that that's what God want's of all people even though the scripture is making a distinction between those who are carnally and spiritually minded.

Need others?

 

[guitarpreacher]

QUOTE: "The error is that he does not say that the context of Romans 8:6 is about those who are belivers already"

Everything that Paul wrote was either written to members of churches or pastors of churches (with the exception of Philemon), so are you then saying that the bulk of the New Testament cannot be used in presenting Christ to unbelievers? Romans 8:6, in context supports his point very well.

 

[BroShane]

Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
QUOTE: "The error is that he does not say that the context of Romans 8:6 is about those who are belivers already"

Everything that Paul wrote was either written to members of churches or pastors of churches (with the exception of Philemon), so are you then saying that the bulk of the New Testament cannot be used in presenting Christ to unbelievers? Romans 8:6, in context supports his point very well.

No, I am saying that RW uses a verse that does not support his point, but uses a version that has a particular wording that seems to make it fit his point.

I never said that you couldn't use the bulk of the NT in "presenting Christ to unbelievers." I was pointing out the subtle difference between the context of the verse he used and how he used it.

 

[Jannee]

Like I said, pick YOUR page of PDL and I will debate it.

You didn't pick a page so I guess I will start from the beginning.
The first page of the first chapter. It's called

A JOURNEY WITH PURPOSE Getting the Most from This Book

"This is more than a book; it is a guide to a 40-day spiritual journeythat will enable you to discover the answers to life's most important question; What on earth am I here for? By the end of this journey you will know God's purpose for your life and will understand the big picture-how all the pieces of your life fit together. Having this perspective will reduce your stress, simplify your decisions, sincrease your satisfaction, and, most important, prepare you for the enemy.
My questions as a new believer were: After re-reading "having THIS perspective...what does THIS? mean?
I never did know what THIS perspective was, re-reading it. it kept on rambling here and there. A theme.

(It is a theme where he points to something, but that something is re-stated and broken apart within many sentences prior to that that when you try to define the something he speaks of, you just can't)
Ok the biggie here is....THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO ME
I didn't know by these things "by the end of this 40 day journey"

Of course that won't surprise you all, no one can make promises like that.

The holy spirit will not be "ordered" by anyone to make ANY guide to a 40 day spiritual journey to be able to answer life's most important question, know your purpose for your life, and understand the big picture, and how the pieces are put together in that 40 day journey. Maybe it wasn't god's plan at the moment.

Ok now onto the next paragraph on the first page -
YOUR NEXT 40 DAYS

Today the average lifespan is 25,550 days. That's how long you will live if you are typical. Don't you think it would be a wise use of time to set aside 40 of those days to figure out what God wants you to do with the rest of them?
The Bible is clear that God considers 40 days a spiritually significant time period. Whenever god wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days:

We would have to turn the page to see the rest BUT HERE IS THE COMPLETE FIRST PAGE.

The last sentence of whenever god wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days is a concern of mine too. Offhand, I couldn't come up with anything but it felt like the spirit nudged me that that was not right.
I found many websites (Which someone listed some of these here somewhere) which will debate his examples but often they don't point out the good in the book, only the bad.
I have seen the fruits of R.W. so though the book has errors, I will use it. I am still trying to find the verse that says, or I think it says something like a bad tree can't produce good fruit. He has produced good fruit. I have many issues with him, but he is successful and all I see is good fruit so what can I say.
I feel it's best to just KNOW the discrepancies of PDL, and make an outline to add with your PDL study, that's all. Too bad R.W. wouldn't do that, then their would be no criticism since they all say the same thing. I have a book defending him which explains his take on the criticism called the Purpose that drives him.

BUT if the holy spirit tells you it is wrong, then don't do the study. You must learn to listen to him, and talk with him throughout the day to know what he wants you to do. Hope this wasn't too long.

 

[webdog]

You prove nothing except you do not like his writing style. I asked for all of the Scripture supposedly using inferior translations that had been ripped out of context. Broshane did a poor job with the one he supplied.
Next!

 

[Jannee]

webdog here is your proof:
Purpose Driven Life

1. Pg 64 "The Lord is pleased with those who worship him and trust his love" Psalm 147:11 CEV
OR
"The Lord takes pleasure in those who fear Him, in those who hope in his mercy" Psalm 147:11 KJV
"The Lord delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love" Psalm 147: 11 NIV

FEAR IS OMITTED. WORSHIP IS ADDED


2. Pg 85 The first sentence-
. "Since we were restored to friendship with God by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be delivered from eternal punishment by his life" Romans 5:10 NLT
OR
"For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!" NIV & KJV

BEING GOD'S FRIEND IS NEVER MENTIONED IN EITHER TRANSLATIONS


3. Pg 86 "He is a God who is passionate about his relationship with you" Exodus 34:14 NLT
OR
"Do not worship any other God, for the Lord, whose name is Jelous, is a Jelous God" Exodus 34: 14 NIV
(For you shall worship no ther God, for the Lord, whose name is Jelous, is a Jelous God" Exodus 43:14 KJV

PASSION IS NEVER MENTIONED BUT JELOUSY IS. THE POINT OF THE VERSE IS TO COMMAND US NOT TO WORSHIP OTHER GODS.

4. Pg 283- "We're Christs representatives. God uses us to persuade men and women to drop their differences and enter into God's work of making things right between them. We're speaking for Christ himself now: Become friends with God."
2 Corinthians 5:20 MSG
OR
"Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us; we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God" 2 Corinthians 5:20 KJV

"We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf; Be reconciled to God" 2 Corinthians 5:20

R. W HAS INSERTED THE WORD FRIENDS. THIS HAD NOTHING REGARDING BEING FRIENDS WITH GOD OR OUR ABOUT OUR DIFFERENCES WITH ONE ANOTHER

I can go on and on......but my fingers are getting tired

 

[Jannee]

Webdog I am going to add what I learned to my outline which will be passed out during the PDL study. The book can be corrected in spots yet I will just provide additonal outline info during our PDL study so it will be balanced.
I do agree with tinytim that some just don't seem to like R.W. and will argue about anything he says. But that is expected.

 

[BroShane]

Originally posted by webdog:
You prove nothing except you do not like his writing style. I asked for all of the Scripture supposedly using inferior translations that had been ripped out of context. Broshane did a poor job with the one he supplied.
Next!

It would be more helpful if you could dispute it with some information, scripture, or something that would take your post from opinion to possible founded assertion.

 

[Jannee]

Good point BroShame

webdog you better get on it Or are you afraid I will criticize your writing style?
Almost everyone here who posted has serious problems with PDL. Read the posts. The multiple translations used being #1. Even WITH using the multiple transaltions, R. W still could not make it all say what he wanted it to

It's calculated and that is what is upsetting to people.

If the study was done at one chapter a week instead of one chapter a day, and everyone looked up the scriptures like we are SUPPOSE to, PDL would not be the success it is. Too many flaws would be exposed.
R.W. donates 90% of his salary and keeps 10%. so it appears not about $$ He works hard at what he does, is very committed. Using only one of R.W ideas, I already have 4 people committed to attend my new bible study. It costed me nothing.
PDL works. It draws people into interest with God. People respond to it, many have heard about it. I feel fine with using it as long as I personally provide the accurate info where it's ommitted, distored etc...
If I do another study in it's place, I am confident I won't get the response like I have with PDL.

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by Jannee:
Like I said, pick YOUR page of PDL and I will debate it.

You didn't pick a page so I guess I will start from the beginning.
The first page of the first chapter. It's called

A JOURNEY WITH PURPOSE Getting the Most from This Book

"This is more than a book; it is a guide to a 40-day spiritual journeythat will enable you to discover the answers to life's most important question; What on earth am I here for? By the end of this journey you will know God's purpose for your life and will understand the big picture-how all the pieces of your life fit together. Having this perspective will reduce your stress, simplify your decisions, sincrease your satisfaction, and, most important, prepare you for the enemy.
My questions as a new believer were: After re-reading "having THIS perspective...what does THIS? mean?
I never did know what THIS perspective was, re-reading it. it kept on rambling here and there. A theme.

(It is a theme where he points to something, but that something is re-stated and broken apart within many sentences prior to that that when you try to define the something he speaks of, you just can't)
Ok the biggie here is....THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO ME
I didn't know by these things "by the end of this 40 day journey"

Of course that won't surprise you all, no one can make promises like that.

The holy spirit will not be "ordered" by anyone to make ANY guide to a 40 day spiritual journey to be able to answer life's most important question, know your purpose for your life, and understand the big picture, and how the pieces are put together in that 40 day journey. Maybe it wasn't god's plan at the moment.

Ok now onto the next paragraph on the first page -
YOUR NEXT 40 DAYS

Today the average lifespan is 25,550 days. That's how long you will live if you are typical. Don't you think it would be a wise use of time to set aside 40 of those days to figure out what God wants you to do with the rest of them?
The Bible is clear that God considers 40 days a spiritually significant time period. Whenever god wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days:

We would have to turn the page to see the rest BUT HERE IS THE COMPLETE FIRST PAGE.

The last sentence of whenever god wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days is a concern of mine too. Offhand, I couldn't come up with anything but it felt like the spirit nudged me that that was not right.
I found many websites (Which someone listed some of these here somewhere) which will debate his examples but often they don't point out the good in the book, only the bad.
I have seen the fruits of R.W. so though the book has errors, I will use it. I am still trying to find the verse that says, or I think it says something like a bad tree can't produce good fruit. He has produced good fruit. I have many issues with him, but he is successful and all I see is good fruit so what can I say.
I feel it's best to just KNOW the discrepancies of PDL, and make an outline to add with your PDL study, that's all. Too bad R.W. wouldn't do that, then their would be no criticism since they all say the same thing. I have a book defending him which explains his take on the criticism called the Purpose that drives him.

BUT if the holy spirit tells you it is wrong, then don't do the study. You must learn to listen to him, and talk with him throughout the day to know what he wants you to do. Hope this wasn't too long.

Actually RW wants you to start with the very first page of the book as I recall and then sign a covenant. he made a comment about reading the book one chapter at a time, not hurrying up and getting to the end and spoiling it, or something like that. Thats cool I'm over it. If God can use the mouth of a donkey I'm sure he can use RW as well.
Thanx and God Bless.

 

[tinytim]

Our church didn't sign a covenant..
Didn't feel the need to...
Our pastor is a wonderful pastor, and either supplemented or corrected the book when he needed to...

I actually couldn't get through 1 chapter a day... too much stuff in each chapter for me to digest.. You know, go to the Word myself and check it out..

 

[Jannee]

Originally posted by webdog:
You prove nothing except you do not like his writing style. I asked for all of the Scripture supposedly using inferior translations that had been ripped out of context. Broshane did a poor job with the one he supplied.
Next!

 

[Jannee]

Originally posted by webdog:
You prove nothing except you do not like his writing style. I asked for all of the Scripture supposedly using inferior translations that had been ripped out of context. Broshane did a poor job with the one he supplied.
Next!

Webdog,

Where are you???????????

You ARE here and you are STILL posting.

You should not be allowed to post challenges and then just not come back.
You shouldn't be allowed to post in the future if you do this again. It's rude to everyone in the conversation. Not to mention your post was a bit sarcastic.

 

[jshurley04]

Excellent point Tim. No matter what you use or who has written it, it is all written by men. Since they are written by men they will need to be corrected from time to time by a good student of the Word. Since all of us cannot agree on every point of doctrine we must filter anything we use through our belief system that God has given us the freedom to hold. So no matter what we do or use, everything will have to corrected as we go if it does not line up perfectly.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by Jannee:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by webdog:
You prove nothing except you do not like his writing style. I asked for all of the Scripture supposedly using inferior translations that had been ripped out of context. Broshane did a poor job with the one he supplied.
Next!

Webdog,

Where are you???????????

You ARE here and you are STILL posting.

You should not be allowed to post challenges and then just not come back.
You shouldn't be allowed to post in the future if you do this again. It's rude to everyone in the conversation. Not to mention your post was a bit sarcastic. </font>[/QUOTE]Are you a moderator now after a hefty 22 posts? If not don't tell me what I am and am not allowed to do.

I've beaten this dead horse before. I asked for relevant Scripture by RW from "inferior" translations that are taken out of context. You have provided up to this point "0" There is none. That is my point, and the reason you can't post any. I'm not going to argue RW's preaching, writing and evangelizing style. I am not going to argue or debate a point if the requirements I set forth are not met.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by BroShane:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by webdog:
You prove nothing except you do not like his writing style. I asked for all of the Scripture supposedly using inferior translations that had been ripped out of context. Broshane did a poor job with the one he supplied.
Next!

It would be more helpful if you could dispute it with some information, scripture, or something that would take your post from opinion to possible founded assertion. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm the one who asked for Scripture first. One Scripture which does not fit the description of what I asked for doesn't work. I will not succumb to your demands unless you can post what I asked. If not...