Putin: "Bush win means US not scared of terror"

Unfortunately, the Southern Baptist Churches (as well as nondenominational ones) down here are wallowing in the right wing; NONE of them I have been to thus far speak of ending war and poverty. The Episcopal Church here focuses on these issues however, and I am friends with some of them; the Evangelical Lutherans are more my speed too.

My church in Rochester is loosely affiliated with the ABC/USA, but there has been some rifts with our convention. Many of us are Progressive Christians, and simply cannot swallow some of the exclusivist stuff that has come from them lately.

Ever hear of these guys?

http://www.religioustolerance.org </font>[/QUOTE]Sure, I've used that website as a reference site for several years.

So what speaks with authority to people like you? How do you decide how to live a Christian Life as opposed to a Muslim life? And why do you want to?

 

It is the non-exclusive stuff that is the "come lately" stuff. Christ himself was an exclusivist and he certainly knew the truth better than anybody. We don't need "progressive Christians." We need regressive Christians ... those who will get back to the radical ideals of the first century such as standing against sin and preaching the gospel of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.

Let us dispense with the nonsense of progressive Christianity. It is an oxymoron.

 

Good question! For me, it was the self-sacrifice and utterly pure compassion Christ had for all that tells me in my heart that he is a wonderful model for all of us to aspire to, letting go of our selfishness and hate. Granted, this ethic is also reflected in the teachings of others across the millinia... some might say I am Christian just because I was born here, and that very well might be true... but I believe the care for humanity expressed in Christ is a transcendental ethic that all understand... Love thy neighbor as thyself. Empathy, compassion, love. Who can really argue with those Truths?

That's one reason so many Christians confuse me when they show such disdain for other's lives...

 

Ummm... I disagree, as do several others:

James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
2:15
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
2:16
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

John 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Matt 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

--------

I believe a Lord of mercy will not turn away those who exemplify Christ in their lives, regardless of the quibbling details... I do not think my God petty, or his Word narrow.

 

Good question! For me, it was the self-sacrifice and utterly pure compassion Christ had for all that tells me in my heart that he is a wonderful model for all of us to aspire to, letting go of our selfishness and hate. Granted, this ethic is also reflected in the teachings of others across the millinia... some might say I am Christian just because I was born here, and that very well might be true... but I believe the care for humanity expressed in Christ is a transcendental ethic that all understand... Love thy neighbor as thyself. Empathy, compassion, love. Who can really argue with those Truths?

That's one reason so many Christians confuse me when they show such disdain for other's lives... </font>[/QUOTE]You still did not answer the question. What speaks with authority to your life in the area of religion?

 

Then you and them are both wrong.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Many other versee could be marshalled to show the foolishness and hopeless of getting to God apart from faith in Jesus Christ alone.

This passage has nothing to do with this subject. This passage is discussing the kind of faith that saves people.

Once again, a clear passage addressing the necessity of faith in Christ for salvation.

Again, a very true statement about the end time judgment. IT says absolutely nothing about a works salvation or getting to God by "meaning well" about what we do.

Well, your God is certainly not the God of Scripture, the only true God that exists. You have created a god in your own mind to justify yourself. SCripture tells us about the God that exists, and we are commanded to worship Him in teh way that He dictates. We are not permitted to make up our own god.

 

My belief in Christ as a model for compassion is clearly stated in the Bible, and in my Heart.

 

How have you not done the same in your own understanding of the Relationship? I may view scripture in a different light than yourself (as Catholics, Lutherans, and others do in their own fashion; the second chapter of Romans needs some perusal, and Psalms 62...), but that does not mean that I am somehow inside a wrong of your invention. Please do not judge.

Luke 10:25-28
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

 

My belief in Christ as a model for compassion is clearly stated in the Bible, and in my Heart. </font>[/QUOTE]So Christ is a model of compassion for you because it is clearly stated in the Bible and in your heart?

What about those other verses that clearly state that Jesus is the only way to Salvation and "No One comes to the Father except through Him?"

What about the very words of Jesus that say, "Except a Man be Born Again he cannot see the Kingdom of God."

Have you been Born Again?

 

As well as in practically every other relgion... and common sense.

I'd say you're taking a literalist line on John that's almost as bad as what can happene if you do the same with Paul; I interpret the 'through' in terms of clearly seeing Christ as the finest example of moral and ethical purity, a model for Living, on the inside and outside.

You're making our Lord into a line on an instruction sheet... that doesn't sit well with me.

Yes. For once I was self-serving and felt myself seperate from God and man; now, my heart overflows with compassion and connection for others... I am not an island! Christ has bridged the gap, and I cannot make excuse... I am engaged and interresponsible, all of humanity is my family, Children of God.

Methinks that's ot what you wanted to hear; but that is what I have heard.

 

How do you know that the Model Jesus you read about in the Bible is true at the same time you reject the true meaning of clear passages that say He (Jesus is the only way to heaven)?

I guess my question is how come the words you read and determine from them that Jesus is the finest example of moral and ethical purity are more true than the words that say "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

 

Different facets, same Rock of Truth. You and I see things differently when it comes to some scripture... I am not an exclusivist.

For me, it has to do with the contexts involved... people of that time did not have the long view of the rest of us, the ability to see God's work throughout all cultures. Do you really think our Lord so narrow as to not have a wealth of ways to get across to his Children?

 

How have you not done the same in your own understanding of the Relationship?</font>[/QUOTE]The God I worship is the God who revealed himself in Scripturr. The god you have described is a different god.

If I did not, I would not obedient to Christ. He instructed us to discern false teaching and to stand against it publicly. If I did not judge your teaching as false, I would show that I did not love Christ.

 

Different facets, same Rock of Truth. You and I see things differently when it comes to some scripture... I am not an exclusivist.

For me, it has to do with the contexts involved... people of that time did not have the long view of the rest of us, the ability to see God's work throughout all cultures. Do you really think our Lord so narrow as to not have a wealth of ways to get across to his Children? </font>[/QUOTE]I certainly do. Christianity historically and Biblically has been narrow.

 

It is the non-exclusive stuff that is the "come lately" stuff. Christ himself was an exclusivist and he certainly knew the truth better than anybody. We don't need "progressive Christians." We need regressive Christians ... those who will get back to the radical ideals of the first century such as standing against sin and preaching the gospel of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.

Let us dispense with the nonsense of progressive Christianity. It is an oxymoron. </font>[/QUOTE]The problem is you mix up the definitions. What is being called progressive Christianianity is focussed on evangelical outreach, feeding the poor, caring for the sick, and supporting the sanctity of all life, unborn babies but also those killed in unjust wars and those executed rather than being given a chance to accept Christ. "Regressive Christianity" is focusing on political power, a narrow definition of the church, and might makes right.

 

Evangelism, feeding poor, caring for sick, and the santity of life is old fashioned Christianity.

Progressive Christians is what people call themselves when they want to do thing like condone or accept homosexual behavior, or deny the fact that all religions are not equal, or deny that Scripture is God's revelation.

It is you who are confused. POlitical power and might makes right were never mandates of the church given by Christ.. It is not Christianity at all. A narrow definition of hte church is what there is in Scripture. Scripture says that the church is those who have repented from their sin and put their faith in Christ alone for salvation. If that makes it regressive, then so be it ... We need a world of regressive Christians.

 

In fact, once God got very angry with Saul when he didn't completely carry out genocide of the Amalekites according to His command. Saul spared the king's life and saved some good sheep and oxen.


1 Samuel 15:2-3
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember [that] which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid [wait] for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

 

The Amalekites were living under a centuries old punishment from God because of their disobedience. Sin and rejection of God always has a price.

 

And that is what I am espousing... to which many of you balk.

I disagree with you on the first and second somewhat, but not the third... although we seem to be taking a different tack on it.

That fall back upon a small, inner world of disdain and neglect of their relationship with God's children?

Please reconsider, in Christ's name.

 

I think JesusandGeorge04 that you're stereotyping. You seem to be assuming that Christians who believe in the absolute truthfulness of the Bible are narrowminded and bigoted and neglectful of their fellowman.

Tell us please, what is the point of Christianity if it is not to reconcile sinful men to a sovereign God through God's Gracious gift of Salvation?