Q to Ponder. Does the future exist right now?

Hello C4K.

I can't accept that. If the past exists then Jesus is still on the cross. Forever. The past has gone the future is to come and we share an everpresent now with the Lord. Time is not a created thing but an arttribute of God. Like His love.

Ben.
In Him we live and move and have our being. There is eternity. From everlasting to everlasting. That is time.

johnp.

 

Your problem comes with trying to put God in a "time box" which is where we dwell. Your question was "Does the future exist today?"

I, being a time bound being, have no perception of the future. All of earthy creation is bound by this "time box."

Your god is bound like I am, not knowing that which exist beyond his ken

My God, on the other hand, Who IS the beginning and and the end, and Who dwells in eternity, knows that the future exists right now for that is part of His dwelling place.

I wonder whose god is more trustworthy?

 

In defense of Ben Elohim: I think he may indeed hold a consistent position when he asserts that God is omniscient and yet does not know the future.

Analogy: I do not know how many ducks there are alive at this moment on the earth. God does, but only because there is something in reality to know about this question - there are indeed a certain number of ducks presently living. On the other hand, God does not know where my sister is right now. Why? Because, I happen to have no sisters.

God cannot know about something that is, in point of fact, non-existent. God knows "all there is to know" but Ben Elohim argues that the contents of "tomorrow" does not exist in any sense. I happen to disagree. So the discussion should really focus on whether "the future" is really a "thing" that can be said to exist.

Now I think that he has some work to do to explain away some scriptures which suggest (to me anyway)that the future exists as "information in the mind of God". On the other hand, asking someone to believe that God knows the future, with all the logical challenges (not necessarily showstoppers, mind you) that this involves is asking a lot.

 

Not it does not mean God is in a time box. It means that there is nothing down here in creation that now exists called "the future" for anyone to know anything about. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Except God, for He exists outside of what you call "creation" since He is the Creator.

Why is it so difficult to accept that an infinte God of ALL can know a future which does not exist in the mind of finite man?

I have NO problem trusting that God. I would have a hard time trusting a god who can be caught off guard. I just can't imagine God saying, "Wow, an earthquake. Boy, that one sure caught me off guard."

No thanks. Worship that ignorant god if you wish. I will take the One Who knows ALL!

 

So according to your supposition eternity, where God dwells stops at this instant?

Sounds like Stephen King's "The Langoliers" where the only time which exists is the present.

And speaking of the present - it is bedtime in Ireland.

And God already KNOWS my future, whether I will be back in the morning or not, something I don't know .

 

Hello C4K.

It is His Being. Logic is a fine thing a gift of God. Where there is no time 'nothing' happens. (Something else we know about nothing.)
If He invented time 'when' could He have found the what to do it in?

Ben.
Why don't you answer my questions?

What? That Jesus is a liar? I never said that!

Who's Aquinas then? But we may if you like pressume him wrong. I don't know what he said mind.
A never ending time continuum is such an impersonal way of putting the Life of God. The Being of God don't you think. A never ending love continuum would also be impersonal.
How can time exist before time? How can a thing be unless time is.

I have enough trouble with English why waste my time on languages when we are dealing with logic? What words do you mean? Why does tick tock mean a different thing to a Greek and Hebrew than it does to me?
Why don't you answer my questions?
What ridiculous verses? Like the ones that say people are to be tortured forever in Hell? Where forever means without end.

johnp.

 

You said you read it, then you proceed to quote it. And you still miss it. Notice how "the message that I tell you" is not in the text. You say that God said he was going to destroy them in 40 days. What else did he say? You are reading into the text and asserting your knowledge as higher than God's revelation.

You asked this before and it was already answered. The Bible plainly tells us what happened. And God answers the whining Jonah but asserting his sovereignty to do with his creation whatever he likes. It is a lesson you need to learn as well.

God's judgement in Scripture is clearly connected with lack of repentance. That is abundantly clear.

You keep referring to the future as if there is nothing to know about it. That is a clear rejection of God's word. God does know the future and clearly tells us so. You can see it in passages such as the book of Isaiah. It is so explicitly clear that only the most hard hearted rebels can miss it.

 

That is a silly question, along the lines of "CAn God make a rock so big he can't move it?" That is totally absurd and illogical. It makes no sense whatsoever. It is also totally irrelevant since God tells us that he knows the future.

Scripture plainly declares his belief to be wrong. God does know the future, including the events of tomorrow. God is not learning. People who learn things don't know it all. They are, by definition, not omniscient.

 

No obviously not. Are you really this new to Scripture? Seriously ... You are demonstrating an extreme lack of knowledge. John 4:2 gives the substance of hte message. It is quite obvious that it is not the entire message. That is true with all the prophets. For instance, in teh 60 years of Isaiah's ministry, he said far more than what is preserved in his 66 chapters. What is preserved is what God desired us to have. The same is true with Jonah.

Hopefully that will help clear up some of your confusion. Some of the stuff that I assume is common knowledge sometimes isn't, but it always helps to say it anyway.

Bottom of page 3.

Please explain how this is relevant to this particular passage.</font>[/QUOTE]God said it is relevant in Jonah 4, when their repentance forestalls his judgment.

Are you serious? You don't know any place in Scripture where God says he knows the future?

Isaiah 46:9-11 9 "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'; 11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man of My purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it.

Isaiah 45:18-22 18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else. 19 "I have not spoken in secret, In some dark land; I did not say to the offspring of Jacob, 'Seek Me in a waste place'; I, the LORD, speak righteousness, Declaring things that are upright. 20 "Gather yourselves and come; Draw near together, you fugitives of the nations; They have no knowledge, Who carry about their wooden idol And pray to a god who cannot save. 21 "Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.

Isaiah 48:3-7 3 "I declared the former things long ago And they went forth from My mouth, and I proclaimed them. Suddenly I acted, and they came to pass. 4 "Because I know that you are obstinate, And your neck is an iron sinew And your forehead bronze, 5 Therefore I declared them to you long ago, Before they took place I proclaimed them to you, So that you would not say, 'My idol has done them, And my graven image and my molten image have commanded them.' 6 "You have heard; look at all this. And you, will you not declare it? I proclaim to you new things from this time, Even hidden things which you have not known. 7 "They are created now and not long ago; And before today you have not heard them, So that you will not say, 'Behold, I knew them.'

I could cite more passages than this board would handle. This is a clearly revealed truth of Scripture. To deny it is to deny the essential nature of God.

 

Hello Ben.

I said nothing of the sort. What I was contending was that if God wants to use lying spirits what has that got to do with you?
You said;
May I ask, did God deceive the Ninevites by telling them he would destroy them in 40 days if indeed he knew that such a thing would never happen?
I said;
If He did what is that to you? Do you say He is obligated to tell them the truth? 1KI 22:23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
For you?
I never mentioned Jonah why do you twist what was said? I asked you if you think God is obligated to you to tell the truth. Is He? You did not answer but pervert what I said and put meaning in as you saw fit.
Your reply;
And are you actually suggesting here that God gave Jonah a lying spirit to proclaim his message to the Ninevites? Did Jonah preach the word of the LORD or the word of a lying spirit? Do tell.
What I am actually suggesting is exactly what I am asking. Do you think God is obligated to tell you the truth. Yes or no will do. The bit of scripture was just to save the trouble of you asking where and me replying to where God uses lying spirits. Ok?
How am I doing?

johnp.

 

Hi Larry;

So does that mean all who disagree with Larry is a hard hearted rebel?
Why do you think He knows it, because He looked forward in time or was it because He can control certain events to make prophecy come true?. I suspect that Judas for instance was a likely candidate rather than appointed, or predestined to destruction. It's clear that Christ only lost Judas so that prophecy might be fulfilled
If everything was unalterably predestined to happen then it wouldn't matter. How ever for some reason God has to step in once in a while to make corrections such as the flood or Sodom or Nenevah. It's clear that God stepped in to assure certain events happen. How is it you don't see that when it's so clear.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike