NarnianSoldier
New Member
In fact, Revelation was doubted by many.
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
YesWere the NT churches autonomous?
Yes, and each church still has them. An overseer is a bishop, and it is the office of pastor or elder in the church.They had "overseers" or "bishops".
Yes, apostolic authority is always binding from outside the church. Today, that comes down to us in the NT, not from other churches or people outside the local church.And in Acts 15, we even see a church council of a sorts in Jerusalem which was binding wasn't it?
For leadership. Each church needs leadership and so each church has at least one bishop, or pastor, for that task.What's the purpose of having bishops?
Forgive my ignorance, but where does the bible say that?
How does one become a bishop? Can anyone just ordain themselves or have their friend ordain them?An overseer is a bishop, and it is the office of pastor or elder in the church.
Huh?Yes, apostolic authority is always binding from outside the church. Today, that comes down to us in the NT, not from other churches or people outside the local church.
Then maybe they should re-read the last book in the Bible:Originally posted by NarnianSoldier:
The Orthodox and Catholics have 73. And for 1500 years their bible was the bible. How do we know it should have 66 and not 73?
So you're saying God stopped using men back in the "older" days? You're saying that he isn't using men today? 1st, 16th, 20th century. God is still using men today. He didn't stop.. He didn't take a break... He has always, and will always be using men to share his Word and Love.Originally posted by NarnianSoldier:
The men he used put 46 books in the OT until Luther. Who should we believe? The men of the 2nd-5th centuries, or the man from the 16th?
Rev 22:18, was John speaking of the “Book” as the Bible, that wasn’t even in existence at the time of his writing or was John speaking of the “Book” as in Revalation?Originally posted by JamieinNH:
Then maybe they should re-read the last book in the Bible:
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
The "organized visible" institution went on to compromise after compromise until it eventually presided over the atrocities of the dark ages.Well, Jesus said he was founding a church, and we can see that church in action. Jesus didn't say "write this in memory of me" but "do this in memory of me". He gave commands for actoins and gave to some men authority...what happened to them? What happened to this visible institution founded by the Son of God?
And it came about as the outgrowth of the "principle of apostacy" identified by Paul as coming from WITHIN the church.2Thess 2
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
This predicted apostacy AND the the predicted arise of error FROM WITHIN the church brought fear to the heart of Paul as he observed the inclination to "drift" and to "assume all will be well".Acts 20
28 ""Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29 ""I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
31 ""Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.
32 ""And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
And "obviously" we all "SEE" the dark ages!!2 Cor 11
3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.
In Christ,Rev 12
4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.
5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Here is a bad assumption posted -- the idea that the NT saints had no Bible!!Originally posted by riverm:
Rev 22:18, was John speaking of the “Book” as the Bible, that wasn’t even in existence at the time of his writing
Acts 17:2
And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Acts 17:11
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Acts 18:24
Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
Acts 18:28
for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
Romans 1:2
which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,
Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? " ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Romans 9:17
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, " FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Romans 10:11
For the Scripture says, " WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Galatians 4:30
But what does the Scripture say?" CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
1 Timothy 4:13
Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching.
1 Timothy 5:18
For the Scripture says, " YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and " The laborer is worthy of his wages."
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, " YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.
James 2:23
and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, " AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
James 4:5
Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: " He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?
Originally posted by BobRyan:
Originally posted by riverm:
Rev 22:18, was John speaking of the “Book” as the Bible, that wasn’t even in existence at the time of his writing
Hi Bob,Originally posted by BobRyan:
[QB]Here is a bad assumption posted -- the idea that the NT saints had no Bible!!
Incorrect. The Bible was always 66 books. The early church did not accept the Apocrypha as Scripture. The RCC departed from Scripture at that point.The Orthodox and Catholics have 73. And for 1500 years their bible was the bible. How do we know it should have 66 and not 73?
In the NT, you see no one but apostles having authority in a local church. There is no example of a contrarian situation.Forgive my ignorance, but where does the bible say that?
They desire it (1 Tim 3:1). They are examined by the local church (1 Tim 5). Then they are ordained by the local church. No, they can't ordain themselves and a friend cannot ordain them either.How does one become a bishop? Can anyone just ordain themselves or have their friend ordain them?
Huh?</font>[/QUOTE]Huh? What?</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Yes, apostolic authority is always binding from outside the church. Today, that comes down to us in the NT, not from other churches or people outside the local church.
Where do the rules specifically state that “Catholics” are NOT allowed to join this free community?Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I am sniffing out here that you are a Catholic who probably joined the board under disguise in order to circumvent the rules. Have you been dishonest in joining this board? Were you previously banned for lying on your application to join this board?
Ok so here is the deal. ALL agree that the NT saints had Bibles - had scripture and they all knew what it was.Originally posted by riverm:
Hi Bob,
I should have made myself clearer, in regard to the title of the thread “27 books”. I was speaking of the NT, but actually the Bible as you and I hold in our hands. I don’t dispute the Hebrew Cannon (Torah, the Law & the Pentateuch), which was established between the sixth and fourth centuries B.C., which was authoritative for all Jews at the time and your scripture quotes are in regard to the Hebrew Cannon.
Blessings
What answers are you looking for that have not been given?I need answers to this, do not start banning again. There has to be someone who can answer these questions and if the Baptists at this board cannot...who can?