Question About Divorce

[SpiritualMadMan]

Dr. Bob's answer is the best I've seen in a long time.

M2S,

Did your husband give you a reason why he thought you two *needed* or *should* have a divorce?

It just doesn't make sense, to me, because at 24 you are still pretty young.

Though a six year marriage with you at 24 means you married at 16? Still six years usually means the marriage will last at least until the mid-fifties... I am at a loss.

If the insurance industry doesn't consider a male an adult until age 25, and, your husband is close to your age then he probably had no idea or intention of being married to *anyone* forever.

More than likely he didn't have a clue?

And, it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't get good competent pre-marital counseling from either denomination?

What I am saying is that I would take dr. Bob's advice to heart and pray like crazy.

If you *really* love this guy then you're going to have to hang tough.

Don't pay his way. Not one penny!

If he is determined to get a divorce then let him start the proceedings and pay 100% of the costs.

If he divorces you, and leaves your house, I, personally, would call that abandonment and believe you would be eligible under the Pauline Exception to remarry. And, he be counted as an unbeliever who departed.

Provided, you have not assisted his departure. By being extra difficult. Or, paying the divorce lawyer.

Lastly, I would like to challenge you to take a good look at the theological difference between your Baptist Faith and 'his' Church of Christ.

If I had to make a choice (I am an Assemblies of God adherent - Pentecostal) I would definitely choose Baptist over CoC **any day**.

And, this brings me to another question.

Were you so madly in love with this guy that you willingly changed churches to be with him?

Was he willing to visit your church while you were dating?

The reason I ask is that many males think of courtship and marriage as just another conquest. Just another opportunity to have some girl prove their self-worth. A *very* selfish situation.

In short if he is not willing to court you all over again to re-kindle his love for you, he will probably remain cold, pull further away, and leave you by divorce or other means.

You can try this, though. I don't know if it will work from the female side.

But, when I don't *feel* particularly 'in love' with my wife I start doing some of the 'First Works' again.

And, as I *do* loving things my emotions fall into line once again.

(I got that idea from the Laodecian church. )

I know I am rambling. But, I sincerely wish I had a definitive Word for you. Alas, I don't.

Hopefully something I've said will be useful to God's Spirit to get you thinking in a way that will help.

 

[mommietosadie]

Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:

Did your husband give you a reason why he thought you two *needed* or *should* have a divorce?


.......He quoted a few different things. The first is that he said that he believes I have not been faithful to him I have however never been with another man in my entire life so that cant exactly be it..most people are saying he is just grasping for straws...
.....The second thing he said is he was sick of me yelling at him all the time....He was a work aholic and gone all the time I know we had our fights but they were not always one sided. I dont think either of us knew the correct way to "fight".
.....The third thing he said is that he fell out of love. He cares for me but does not love me and does not feel that we should be married anymore....


It just doesn't make sense, to me, because at 24 you are still pretty young.

..........My husband is 27 and young also. He's never been very mature that's for sure...


Though a six year marriage with you at 24 means you married at 16? Still six years usually means the marriage will last at least until the mid-fifties... I am at a loss.


.............Believe me i'm at a loss also. I do not want this divorce and have since left the house (I could not stay in the house without having a panic attack every time I re-entered plus I was having blood pressure problems w/ it sometimes being 170/108 when I was in the house so my dr suggested I leave believe me it was a mistake to leave but for health reasons I needed to get out)


If the insurance industry doesn't consider a male an adult until age 25, and, your husband is close to your age then he probably had no idea or intention of being married to *anyone* forever.


...........I really dont know if he planned to be married forever or just be married to make his family happy...I just dont know anymore...


More than likely he didn't have a clue?

And, it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't get good competent pre-marital counseling from either denomination?

..........We did have some pre-Marital counceling but not much. I had to meet w/ the pastor three times and he met w/ the pastor twice.

What I am saying is that I would take dr. Bob's advice to heart and pray like crazy.

.........Believe me I have been praying my heart out. I know that our Lord and Savior will lead me to whatever is best for me.


If you *really* love this guy then you're going to have to hang tough.

.........I'm trying to "hang tough" but it is very hard I want and need the guidance for all of this..


Don't pay his way. Not one penny!

........Nope i'm not going to do it.... Why should I give him the means for a divorce that I dont want!


If he is determined to get a divorce then let him start the proceedings and pay 100% of the costs.

..........He has started to proceedings however I did have to get my own lawyer retained and it's costing me a fortune....


If he divorces you, and leaves your house, I, personally, would call that abandonment and believe you would be eligible under the Pauline Exception to remarry. And, he be counted as an unbeliever who departed.

...............He is the one that is abandoning our marriage I dont know if this counts even though I'm the one that left the house....I'll pray about it and hope I get the anwser I need.


Provided, you have not assisted his departure. By being extra difficult. Or, paying the divorce lawyer.

..............I've not assisted his departure from our marriage at all. I am giving him what he has requested of me and i'm not paying for his lawyer only mine so that my best interests are protected..


Were you so madly in love with this guy that you willingly changed churches to be with him?


................I changed my faith because my husbands boss is/was our pastor and he is the COC pastor. I didnt think it would be right for us to attend seperate churches. He was raised Baptist however he decided to be COC because of his boss.....he is easily lead by his bosses influence unfortunately.


Was he willing to visit your church while you were dating?

..............When he and I attended church we attended a Baptist Church. The church we were married in was Baptist. It was only after we were married that he converted to COC and then I went w / him.


In short if he is not willing to court you all over again to re-kindle his love for you, he will probably remain cold, pull further away, and leave you by divorce or other means.


..............I have asked if he would do this for me. TO rekindle what we had but he refuses he said he's given me nine years of his life (since I was 15 and he was 18) and he was no longer willing to waiste his life with me anymore.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

I will pray and sleep on this and see if I can think of something.

And... Thanks for not 'gigging' me for my math error. (Been around computers too much?

)

There was a book published once with either the title or sub-title of, 'How to Have a Good Family Fight'.

I gave a copy to a young couple my wife and I have known ever since they got married.

I'll never forget the day he dropped her off at our house and she got to the front steps and wept on my shoulder as he roared off in their car after he told her he didn't love her anymore.

I wanted to *really* hurt him.

While I am writing...

He quoted a few different things. The first is that he said that he believes I have not been faithful to him I have however never been with another man in my entire life so that cant exactly be it..most people are saying he is just grasping for straws

I know of a couple that had a divorce because the wife had a torrid e-mail affair.

She had already committed adultery in her mind and heart even though they were miles apart.

Very few of us would *ever* consider thinking about trying out another god. Or, trying a cult out.

But, it seems all too easily to think about what it would be like to be married to someone else. It might be a more compassionate spouse. A more attentive spouse. A spouse of different weight or dimensions.

And, IMHO, such thinking would be adulterous just as it would be spiritual adultery to consider another god.

The second thing he said is he was sick of me yelling at him all the time....He was a work aholic and gone all the time I know we had our fights but they were not always one sided. I dont think either of us knew the correct way to "fight".

No one likes a nag.

You mentioned your blood pressure. So, I suspect that you are a type-'A' and would possibly like a place for everything and everything in it's place?

Trust me... If you are that and your guy isn't... There ain't a thing you can do to change him.

No more than a man can 'create' a better housekeeper out of a wife that isn't a neat-nik.

The third thing he said is that he fell out of love. He cares for me but does not love me and does not feel that we should be married anymore

Here is where I have to wonder about why a pastor would think you needed three sessions and your groom only needed two???

IMHO it's the guy that need the majority of training to undo all the garbage society has taught them about women and living with them.

Most church guys hear the wives submit to your husbands part. But, *never* consider what follows that they are supposed to love their wives as Christ loved the church... And, *GAVE* Himself for her.

Please notice, men, that Jesus died for His church **before** he ever asked her to submit to His leadership.

Also note that this *is* a command. Therefore it is not based on how one feels but on the command of God. To love ones wife this deeply.

Whether He likes it or not he is violating a direct command of God to Love you. Even as you, possibly, violated the spirit of the command to submit, by nagging him.

But, with leadership comes responsibility. If a man wants to be the head of his household he must also accept the responsibility when things go wrong.

My advice is to print this thread out and go sit down with someone you really trust enough to confide openly with. Someone who you trust to tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Someone who you trust to *really* know God's Word and His heart.

This will be hard. I know. I have very few people like that in my own life. They are rare. Though, one would hope your Baptist Pastor is one of them.

If you don't have a working relationship with your Baptist Pastor. I would suggest an AoG pastor as the next possibility over the Church of Christ, but, they can be somewhat 'hard boiled' on these subjects.

Sorry, but I have a strong bias against the CoC. Almost to the point of considering it a cult. I may be wrong. But, it is a very strong 'gut' feeling.

Then again... Was it the Baptist preacher who did the 3 - 2 sessions thing?

As I said. I will pray and think about it.

 

[mommietosadie]

Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
[QB] I will pray and sleep on this and see if I can think of something.

..............Thanks for "looking" into this for me. I'm so confused. I am a fairly new Christian and was baptised in Jan of 1999 into the COC and am still very unsure of everything.

He quoted a few different things. The first is that he said that he believes I have not been faithful to him I have however never been with another man in my entire life so that cant exactly be it..most people are saying he is just grasping for straws

I know of a couple that had a divorce because the wife had a torrid e-mail affair.

............I've not had any type of affair with any man. I've never been sexual in any way with another man. If anything him watching porn movies and looking at it on the internet it would be him commiting adultry in his heart...

The second thing he said is he was sick of me yelling at him all the time....He was a work aholic and gone all the time I know we had our fights but they were not always one sided. I dont think either of us knew the correct way to "fight".

No one likes a nag.

You mentioned your blood pressure. So, I suspect that you are a type-'A' and would possibly like a place for everything and everything in it's place?

Trust me... If you are that and your guy isn't... There ain't a thing you can do to change him.

................I can deal with him not being the perfect husband and a workaholic....I have for six and a half years. It's him that's not willing to go to counceling or let me go on antidepressants or anything else to help myself. I'm not saying this divorce is all his fault believe me I wasent the perfect wife but nor was I the worst there could have been. We didnt have any problems (that I know of ) That couldnt have been fixed if he would of just talked to me.....


IMHO it's the guy that need the majority of training to undo all the garbage society has taught them about women and living with them.

Also note that this *is* a command. Therefore it is not based on how one feels but on the command of God. To love ones wife this deeply.

Whether He likes it or not he is violating a direct command of God to Love you. Even as you, possibly, violated the spirit of the command to submit, by nagging him.

But, with leadership comes responsibility. If a man wants to be the head of his household he must also accept the responsibility when things go wrong.


.............my problem is he never took control. he let his boss dictate everything if he asked him to jump he asked how high. If I asked him to take out the trash he would have to ask his boss (not literally but still) we couldnt do anything without him first consulting his bosses...it was frustrating but over the last six and a half years i've learned to deal with it....


My advice is to print this thread out and go sit down with someone you really trust enough to confide openly with. Someone who you trust to tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Someone who you trust to *really* know God's Word and His heart.


..............I wish I really knew someone like this. When we got married 6 1/2 years ago we moved 1500 miles from all of our friends and family so he could take this job here in missouri. The person I trusted the most spiritually was/is my husbands boss who was/is our pastor...I cant talk to him because he's too close to my husband i'm afraid to say something to him without it getting back to him...


If you don't have a working relationship with your Baptist Pastor. I would suggest an AoG pastor as the next possibility over the Church of Christ, but, they can be somewhat 'hard boiled' on these subjects.


..............Do you know of any pastors AOG or otherwise in the Springfield Missouri area that would be able to talk to me?

Sorry, but I have a strong bias against the CoC. Almost to the point of considering it a cult. I may be wrong. But, it is a very strong 'gut' feeling.

Then again... Was it the Baptist preacher who did the 3 - 2 sessions thing?


................Yes it was the Baptist Preacher.......

 

[LaRae]

Originally posted by mommietosadie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
[QB] I will pray and sleep on this and see if I can think of something.

..............Thanks for "looking" into this for me. I'm so confused. I am a fairly new Christian and was baptised in Jan of 1999 into the COC and am still very unsure of everything.

He quoted a few different things. The first is that he said that he believes I have not been faithful to him I have however never been with another man in my entire life so that cant exactly be it..most people are saying he is just grasping for straws

I know of a couple that had a divorce because the wife had a torrid e-mail affair.

............I've not had any type of affair with any man. I've never been sexual in any way with another man. If anything him watching porn movies and looking at it on the internet it would be him commiting adultry in his heart...

The second thing he said is he was sick of me yelling at him all the time....He was a work aholic and gone all the time I know we had our fights but they were not always one sided. I dont think either of us knew the correct way to "fight".

No one likes a nag.

You mentioned your blood pressure. So, I suspect that you are a type-'A' and would possibly like a place for everything and everything in it's place?

Trust me... If you are that and your guy isn't... There ain't a thing you can do to change him.

................I can deal with him not being the perfect husband and a workaholic....I have for six and a half years. It's him that's not willing to go to counceling or let me go on antidepressants or anything else to help myself. I'm not saying this divorce is all his fault believe me I wasent the perfect wife but nor was I the worst there could have been. We didnt have any problems (that I know of ) That couldnt have been fixed if he would of just talked to me.....


IMHO it's the guy that need the majority of training to undo all the garbage society has taught them about women and living with them.

Also note that this *is* a command. Therefore it is not based on how one feels but on the command of God. To love ones wife this deeply.

Whether He likes it or not he is violating a direct command of God to Love you. Even as you, possibly, violated the spirit of the command to submit, by nagging him.

But, with leadership comes responsibility. If a man wants to be the head of his household he must also accept the responsibility when things go wrong.


.............my problem is he never took control. he let his boss dictate everything if he asked him to jump he asked how high. If I asked him to take out the trash he would have to ask his boss (not literally but still) we couldnt do anything without him first consulting his bosses...it was frustrating but over the last six and a half years i've learned to deal with it....


My advice is to print this thread out and go sit down with someone you really trust enough to confide openly with. Someone who you trust to tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Someone who you trust to *really* know God's Word and His heart.


..............I wish I really knew someone like this. When we got married 6 1/2 years ago we moved 1500 miles from all of our friends and family so he could take this job here in missouri. The person I trusted the most spiritually was/is my husbands boss who was/is our pastor...I cant talk to him because he's too close to my husband i'm afraid to say something to him without it getting back to him...


If you don't have a working relationship with your Baptist Pastor. I would suggest an AoG pastor as the next possibility over the Church of Christ, but, they can be somewhat 'hard boiled' on these subjects.


..............Do you know of any pastors AOG or otherwise in the Springfield Missouri area that would be able to talk to me?

Sorry, but I have a strong bias against the CoC. Almost to the point of considering it a cult. I may be wrong. But, it is a very strong 'gut' feeling.

Then again... Was it the Baptist preacher who did the 3 - 2 sessions thing?


................Yes it was the Baptist Preacher....... </font>

Springfield is the AoG headquarters...quite a few AoG Churches there. It's the faith I grew up in, and actually the Church we attended was in Springfield.... however I converted to the Catholic Church as an adult.


LaRae

 

[Carson Weber]

LaRae,

You have the same background as my friend:

http://www.chris-padgett.com

 

[LaRae]

Originally posted by Carson Weber:
LaRae,

You have the same background as my friend:

http://www.chris-padgett.com

Hi Carson,

You (or some) would be surprised to learn who some of my relatives are &lt;G&gt; considering what background I come from....AoG, also my dad's family is primitive baptist!

LaRae

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

M2S,

I've not had any type of affair with any man. I've never been sexual in any way with another man. If anything him watching porn movies and looking at it on the internet it would be him commiting adultry in his heart

Agreed!

And, it seems as if you understand the concern about heart and mind adultery. Excellent!

In Christian Concern,
Your Brother In Christ,
Mike

 

[Tonya R]

mommietosadie,

I'm very familiar with the beliefs of the Church of Christ on MDR(marriage divorce & remarriage). I've known a handful of people with that church.
Not all of them say that sexual immorality is the only reason a divorce can occur without the adultery.
Regardless, some of the hardliners in the Church of Christ have overstepped their boundaries and have put asunder marriage that they considered unscriptural. The same thing went on with the Herbert Armstrong Worldwide Church of God. Thousands of people's lives were messed up due to this false teaching(1 Timothy 4
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. ) of some marriages being "continual adultery".

But most of them have a view that a person that is "unscripturally" married can be "living in adultery". This is not Sola Scriptura. This is adding to the word.

Now, here is what I believe the bible teaches:
Anyone that would end, or indirectly cause a marriage to end(abuse, abandonement, etc) is in the present, an adulterer.
To put it another way, if two people are married, and in their hearts, if there is the drive to end that marriage, then that person(s) is an adulterer and stands guilty even though still married.
A person that is married again does not live in perpetual adultery unless that person regards THAT marriage as temporary also.
Its not about what a person does so much as what a person is capable of doing.
A born again christian is not capable of directly or indirectly destroying a perfectly good marriage.

Regarding your situation:

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 7: (NKJV)
13And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

and

27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But even if you do marry, you have not sinned;

Tonya Rudd

PS, I recommend reading from a Pastor with the Church of Christ that sees things differently than the rest of them: LINK:
Down, but not out

 

[7-Kids]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
If no reconciliation is possible and your husband does divorce you, please go to your church and have him called in for discipline.

He is commanded (not emotion) to love you. Period.

If he will not hear the church, repent and return to you, the church will declare him a "heathen and publican".

You, then, dear lady, are no longer bound by law to him and can begin the next stage of your life.

I HAVE SEEN THIS WORK BOTH WAYS. I have seen ungodly men break down when called into the church to repent. I have seen others tell us where to go and totally abandon their wives and children.

But either way, YOU are free.

1 Corinthians 7:10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.
12But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Matthew 5:31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18 (KJV)
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by mommietosadie:
I am 24 years old and a month ago my husband asked me for a divorce. We are both Christians however he is "Church of Christ" and I am a Baptist. My view on divorce is that God frowns upon it. He however feels that if we get a divorce however both remain single for the rest of our lives that it doest matter. The problem is I do not want to be single for the rest of my life. What views do you guys/girls have in regards to divorce. Is it adultry if a man puts away a woman? Should I start dating again? As a Christian woman who has been asked to leave my marriage of six years should I stay single forever? I'm frustrated and scared of what ly ahead. I've never been alone but I have faith that our Lord will help me through this.

Thanks in advance,
Catherine

Catherine,
the bible teaches that if we divorce unless there has been adulterery we are to remain single or return to our previous spouse. I understand your need and wants, but that is what it teaches. I will pray that you choose to follow the Lord and obey his commands. God bless.

 

[SpiritWalker]

Originally posted by mommietosadie:
I am 24 years old and a month ago my husband asked me for a divorce. We are both Christians however he is "Church of Christ" and I am a Baptist. My view on divorce is that God frowns upon it. He however feels that if we get a divorce however both remain single for the rest of our lives that it doest matter. The problem is I do not want to be single for the rest of my life. What views do you guys/girls have in regards to divorce. Is it adultry if a man puts away a woman? Should I start dating again? As a Christian woman who has been asked to leave my marriage of six years should I stay single forever? I'm frustrated and scared of what ly ahead. I've never been alone but I have faith that our Lord will help me through this.

Thanks in advance,
Catherine

Dear Catherine,
You are married to each other as long as you both live. The only other alternative is to remain single, or else be reconciled. That is the historic position of the church and Scripture. All this other stuff is later day liberal nonsense.

There are no provisions for a marriage being broken for adultery (moiceia), but for fornication (porneia) only, sexual activity before marriage as in the Jewish bethrothal process.

If you read Matthew 5:32 you will see that the "innocent" spouse can not remarry without becoming an adulteress, even if thrown out and divorced by her husband. While you are at it, turn back a page or two and read the story of Marry and Joseph, and you see the only form of "divorce" Jesus was referring to.

SpiritWalker

 

[Frank]

One who is not scriptually married continues to live in adultery. Repentance requires a change of thought and action (Mat. 12:35,36, Mat.3:8). The idea one can marry into an adulterous relationship and contnue in it because it is sanctioned by the law of the land defies logic and the truth of the Bible as it pertains to repentance. If a man steals my watch, does he simply say I am sorry and get to keep it? Can he take my car and not attempt to restore it, and that makes the theft acceptable. Can one take another man's wife and keep her and say I am sorry and that is acceptable to God. This reasoning viloates logic and the biblical repentance required by Christ to be forgiven( Luke 13:3).

 

[pinoybaptist]

by Yelsew:

Marry again if that is what you need to do! You and your husband Confess the sin of adultery, receive the forgiveness, repent from sinning, hold true to each other once you are married, it is then no longer a sin. Then Go on and live a happy productive life doing service to your Savior, Jesus Christ!

Gosh, Yelsew. You're not serious, are you ? To paraphrase what you are saying, "go ahead and sin, and then, confess your sin, don't do the same thing again (unless you absolutely have to as in the case of inability to stay unmarried), and because you've confessed it already, it's all under the blood now. Forget about it."

No disrespect intended, but, if that is your theology, I'd literally pull my daughter out of your church if you were her pastor.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Catherine:

There is to be no divorce. Period. And if one of the partner insists on divorce, both of you have sinned. If your husband remarries, he has compounded his sin. If you remarry while he is alive, then you too compound your sin.

It's harsh, but that's the way the Lord put it.

 

[tamborine lady]

When God said"what God has joined together, let no man put asunder", it's the same kind of statement that you read in Genisis Ch.1. Let there be light, and there was light.

We can't put out the light any more than we can make a couple be "unmarried" after the marriage is consumated.

Working for Him,

Tam,

 

[SpiritWalker]

In fact this divorce question is the same thing that the Hosea Project people are talking about in the letter they are sending to all the churches. It is amazing to me how adultery has become so "santified" by most church people. Here is a copy of their letter I had posted earlier in another thread.

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/2501.html?

SpiritWalker