Question about Rev 2:17

Marcia · Jul 30, 2008

Beth said:

Marcia, you have a formidable task. I still don't have a working handle on Revelation.

So, you are looking at the letters in Revelation to pertain to the time period between the sixth and seventh seal? And you are considering overcoming in the context of this massive martyrdom to come?

Rev 7:13 ¶ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
1 ¶ And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Click to expand...

I certainly don't claim to have a handle on it either! :laugh:

I'm still working on it. It's my view now that this "overcoming" refers to that particular church that had to overcome the false teachings, and/or possibly in a larger context to those believers overcoming during the tribulation, which means they were martyred.

I think these are 2 separate things but the statement could apply to both - there is a theme of martyrdom and overcoming in the book.

Btw, I am pre-trib rapture -- at least for now. I think one's view of eschatology is going affect how they see all this. :wavey:

Beth · Jul 31, 2008

Marcia

Oh, Ok! I agree, one's view of the rapture does indeed lend to different interpretations of Revelation. I myself and partial to the pre-wrath position.

Aaron · Jul 31, 2008

I think John Gill has a good understanding:

And will give him a white stone[SIZE=+1]. The phrase, "to add a white stone", with the Latins, is used to give one's approbation of anything; and could it be applied here, might signify the approbation Christ gives of his church and people here, amidst the testimonies they bear, and the persecutions they endure for his name's sake, and that which he will give of them before his Father, angels, and men, at the last day: white stones were used on various accounts. The Grecians used them to mark good or lucky days with them, as they called them; and could the allusion be thought to be to this custom, the sense would be, that Christ promises, to his people that overcome, happy days, after the times of Popish darkness and persecution were over: white stones were also given to the conquerors in the Olympic games, with their names upon them, and the value of the prize they won; and, here applied, may respect the crown of life and glory given to them who are more than conquerors through Christ, with their right and title to it, and the excellency of it. The Romans in judgment used to give their suffrages for condemnation by casting black stones into the urn, and for absolution white stones; to which Ovid has respect, when he says {r},

"Mos erat antiquis, niveis atrisque lapillis, His damnare reos, illis absolvere culpa.''

And this is thought by many to be referred to here, and may denote, that though the pure members of Christ, and who abhorred and protested against the abominations of the church of Rome, were charged with heresy and schism, and what not, yet Christ would absolve them, and justify them from all those charges. But rather the allusion is to a custom among the Jews, who used to examine the priests and Levites before they went to their service, or to the sanhedrim, to judge and pass sentence, whether their ways and works were right; and if they were as they should be, they gave them
avdqmd armwx[SIZE=+1], "the stone of the sanctuary": if not, they might not enter on business, as it is said; "and of Levi he said, thy Urim and thy Thummim be with thy Holy One", De 33:8[SIZE=+1] {s}. Now on the Urim and Thummim, the stones in the high priest's breastplate, were engraven the names of the children of Israel; and, as the Jews say, the name Jehovah, to which reference may be had in the following clause; and may denote that the church, though in the wilderness, is regarded by Christ, is bore upon his heart and cared for by him; and also its spotless purity in him, and justification by him.

And in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth, saving he that receiveth [it][SIZE=+1]; by this name may be meant, either the name of "Jehovah" our righteousness, which is the name both of Christ, and of his church, Jer 23:6[SIZE=+1], or the name of a child of God, sometimes called a new name; see Isa 56:5[SIZE=+1]; and so designs the blessing of adoption; this may be said to be a new name, because renewed, manifested to, and put upon the people of God, when they are made new creatures, though provided in predestination, and in the covenant of grace from eternity; and because a renowned and excellent one, better than that of the sons and daughters of the greatest prince on earth; and because a wonderful one, being an instance of amazing love and grace; and is what "no man knoweth", but the receiver of it; the Father of these adopted ones is unknown to natural men; and so is Christ, through whom this blessing is bestowed; and the Spirit of God also, who witnesses to it; and the persons that enjoy it, and the blessing itself, and the inheritance to which they are adopted: and this new name being on the white stone, may show that the blessings of justification and adoption, though they are two distinct ones, yet they are inseparable: they go together, and both give a right to the heavenly inheritance; and they are also, as well as the hidden manna, gifts of free grace, and not owing to the works and merit of men, and are given by Christ, and in and through him. At Rome, some white stones have been dug up, some lesser, some greater, with names and letters, and other engravings upon them, which Pignorius {t} has given the figures of; and to such some have thought the allusion here is, and may serve to illustrate this passage. The Ethiopic version, instead of a "white stone", reads, a "famous book".
Click to expand...

[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

I Am Blessed 24 · Jul 31, 2008

Thank you all. There are some very good answers here. This summer has been crazy, but this winter I will have time to delve deeper into Revelation.

joyce · Aug 27, 2008

The verse about "overcoming" leads me to believe that this is definately a tribulation verse, as we don't have to do any overcoming in the dispensation of Grace; because He has done it for us, those going through the tribulation will have to do a lot of overcoming; the white stone also brings to mind a practice that the nation of Israel had with a white stone and black stone, (can't remember much about where that came from; but remember reading that there was a practice of drawing a stone out of a container that was full of black ones and white ones I think; and so does manna and it being hidden of course, would be like the pearl that was hidden parable; plus God fed the Israelites with manna during the 40 years in the wilderness and of course, will feed them again in the tribulation at Petra. Don't know if my thoughts are the same as everyone else's but that is my opinion.
YSIC
Joyce

Question about Rev 2:17

Marcia Active Member

Beth New Member

Aaron Member
Site Supporter

I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

joyce New Member

Useful Searches

Question about Rev 2:17

Marcia Active Member

Beth New Member

Aaron Member Site Supporter

I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

joyce New Member

Aaron Member
Site Supporter