Question about Revelation

That from the same bunch that wanted to 'slay'? 'the great whore' or was that 'the great Satan'- I forget which- back in Sept., 2001? Just askin'!
</font>[/QUOTE]No, no. FWIW, 'The great Satan' was/is Iran's tag for the United States of America. 'The Great Whore' I'm not sure about.

I'm referring to American Babylon and NYC as described IN SOME DETAIL HERE.

 

Rev 18:24 and in her blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all those who have been slain on the earth .'


Mat 23:35 that on you may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the earth from the blood of Abel the righteous, unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar:

Jesus and John are in agreement.

 

Could that not refer to the general "spirit" of the world that is anti-god. The sin of Abel and others was rejecting God's way and going their own. Sounds like the way of the Catholic to me.

 

Rev 18:24 and in her blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all those who have been slain on the earth .'


Mat 23:35 that on you may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the earth from the blood of Abel the righteous, unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar:

Jesus and John are in agreement. </font>[/QUOTE]The issue is not whether the Jews have suffered as a consequence of the rejection of Christ, but who or what is the Great Whore or MYSTERY BABYLON. The text has already qualified who the martyrs are, they are the those who are "drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus". It seems unlikely to be Jerusalem given that Jerusalem has already been designated as spiritual "Sodom and Egypt" in Rev 11:8. Whilst you can make some of the descriptive elements in Rev 17 apply to Jerusalem they do not so completey fit the bill as Romanism. Over the course of church history Rome has persecuted far more believers and presided over their martyrdom than the Jewish people have.

 

There is the Roman Empire and there is the RCC. They are not the same. Which do you believe is the Whore?

Rome killed Jesus, but Paul and even Jesus, in His parables, puts the blame on the OC Jews. Rome initially only killed Christians because of the Jewish insistence.

The fact that Jerusalem is called Sodom does not mean that it can't also be called the Harlot.

Rev 11:8 and their dead bodies are upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)

The "great city" is also referred to as Babylon:

Rev 14:8 And another messenger did follow, saying, `Fall, fall, did Babylon, the great city , because of the wine of the wrath of her whoredom she hath given to all nations to drink.'

Why would the Martyrs celebrate the fall of Rome? The Rome of AD350 was not the Rome of the 1st century. It would be like bombing Germany in the year 2200 for what Hitler did in the 1940's and celebrating the fact that Germany has fallen..

 

...and Cincinnati

Rob </font>[/QUOTE]And so is Nijmegen, the city I live in.
Noviomagum/Nijmegen was already around when the apocalypse of John was written and was part of the domain of Charlemagne the first emperor of the Holy Roman Empire.

 

Ulsterman and Helen,

Ulsterman has so far given a most comprehensive
view of the role of Mystery Babylon.
However, I will comment on his statement that:
________________________________________________
"The beast, I believe, is pictorial of the rule of the antichrist,who shall be Europe’s last great dictator. What is presently emerging in Europe is a new Holy European Empire, an attempt to resurrect the old Holy Roman Empire".
________________________________________________

When does the Harlot "rule the kings of earth"?

I view her rule as taking place prior to the
"wounding" of the 7th head; to whatever is
meant by the Beast that "was and is not".

Surely Rev.13:3 and 17:8 refer to the same event that transfers world power from the Harlot to that of the Beast which "was" an entity of world power; but suddenly becomes the personification of that world power. The Beast becomes a Person
only when the 7th head is "healed" and "all the
world wonders after the Beast" in both texts!!!

If this is true, the "beast cannot picture the
rule of Antichrist" until Ten Kings destroy
Rome in one hour by fire. Rev.17:13,16. It is then that God causes them to agree to give their power to the Beast. Rev.17:17.

The Ten Kings "give their power and authority to the Beast" only when they destroy Babylon (Rome) by fire. Rev.17:13,16-17.

And since this is true, the Harlot must be
"unseated" from the Beast as an Entity before
the Beast fulfills the role of Antichrist when
Satan fills him with a Demon from the Abyss.

Helen, it is superfluous to suggest another city
since only Rome qualifies as the City that rules
the "kings of earth" and at the same time will
maintain the requirement of Daniel that Christ
will destroy the "4th kingdom" at His coming.
Rome must not only be seen as reviving the 4th
empire; but also as being the same kingdom over
which the Antichrist rules. For the 7th Head is
"healed" and continues as the same world empire.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

The counterfeit or apostate church, the bride of the antichrist. The use of the term "apostate church" does not mean that those who constitute this group have ever been one with Jesus Christ and His Church, that is, truly saved and then "fallen away" or lost that salvation. Rather, they were never one with Jesus Christ. Those who are truly saved, those whom God has accepted in the Beloved [Ephesians 1:6], will never fall away [John 6:37-40].

 

You mean Sodom by the Sea is built on seven hills?

 

Old Regular,

What makes you think Mystery Babylon is the
"Bride of the Antichrist"?

To make this claim, you must do more than claim she is his consort because she "sits" on the Beast-Animal with 7 heads and ten horns.

Can the Beast represent the Person called
the "Lawless One" by Paul and/or the "Little
Horn" by Daniel or the "8th King" by John
BEFORE its 7th Head is wounded and BEFORE
the Beast comes up from the Abyss?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

Mel

 

I've never read that book, but I've heard that it's good. I know a lot of Catholics who believe that the Vatican may end up being the whore of Babylon. I've also done quite a bit of research on Catholic websites and in Catholic books which state the same. I found that to be very interesting because I thought only Evangelicals were open to that possibility.

Among Catholic sources, the main reasons I've run across for this is the increasing ecumenism and interreligious focus of the Catholic Church. Things like interreligious worship services with Muslims, the interreligious prayer services at Assisi, and the Vatican claiming that Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. are saved are what causes them to reach this conclusion. I personally know a lot of Catholics who are outraged at the actions that have been taken by the Vatican since the 1960's.

 

I did not make this claim because "she is his consort because she "sits" on the Beast-Animal with 7 heads and ten horns."