Question about the late John R. Rice

[Askjo]

Jack Hyles' best friend John R. Rice! I disagreed with John on the Bible versions issues. He believed the dictation inspiration.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Askjo:
Jack Hyles' best friend John R. Rice! I disagreed with John on the Bible versions issues. He believed the dictation inspiration.

The evidence says that Hyles didn't drift off into extreme error until after JRR was gone and no longer influenced him.

BTW, JRR believed pretty much as all fundamentalists did up until the '70's or early 80's.

BTW, when are you going to actually answer my question over in the versions forum? I am waiting on you to show me where God said what you said He said.

 

[Psalm145 3]

John Rice was straight with the Holy Bible's teaching on repentance. Here is a quote from his tractWhat Must I Do To Be Saved?

"To repent literally means to have a change of mind or spirit toward God and toward sin. It means to turn from your sins, earnestly, with all your heart, and trust in Jesus Christ to save you. You can see, then, how the man who believes in Christ repents and the man who repents believes in Christ. The jailer repented when he turned form sin to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ."

Curtis Hutson and Jack Hyles redefined biblical repentance to mean only a change of mind that doesn't necessarily result in a change of life. They were wrong. I believe this error has led to the multiplication of false converts.

Repentance is the root, a change of life is the fruit. Repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ results in a change of life.

John Rice was wrong about Bible versions, though.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Amazed to see the "pick-and-choose" judgment of Brother Rice. Don't you think that there should be uniform agreement in praise or condemnation?

John R was the father Hyles never had. No one knew how much he held him in check until after he died and Jack began his theological and moral slide over the edge.

Personally? I was never a fan of Rice's theology as evidenced in ANY book or pamphlet he wrote. He was a throwback to interdenominational fundamentalism that had crested shorted after WWII and left him adrift.

But heard him preach often and admired the vision and vigor of that saint!

 

[LarryN]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
He was a throwback to interdenominational fundamentalism that had crested shorted after WWII and left him adrift

This is very true. JRR was often criticized by others (including the Jones's of BJU) for his "lack of separation" in regards to his willingness to associate with leaders & pastors from the SBC, the Assemblies of God, and others who his critics didn't approve of.

 

[Tractster]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
Amazed to see the "pick-and-choose" judgment of Brother Rice. Don't you think that there should be uniform agreement in praise or condemnation?

John R was the father Hyles never had. No one knew how much he held him in check until after he died and Jack began his theological and moral slide over the edge.

Personally? I was never a fan of Rice's theology as evidenced in ANY book or pamphlet he wrote. He was a throwback to interdenominational fundamentalism that had crested shorted after WWII and left him adrift.

But heard him preach often and admired the vision and vigor of that saint!

Dr. Bob,

Care to mention some of the areas of Rice's theology that you disagreed with? No need to go into detail.

While I have read scores of his books, I have not yet heard his voice on tape. How would you describe his delivery/style?

Did he preach like Oliver Green or Billy Graham or Jerry Falwell? Or some other wellknown person?

Thanks.

Roscoe

 

[Dr. Bob]

John R was an old codger but a gentleman in preaching style - unlike the younger, spit-on-the-fifth-row types with whom he was often linked in the Sword Conferences (think Hyles)

His writings - like commentaries on Matthew, Acts are very simplistic and not even much value for a SS teacher.

His book on marriage and family is laughable. I mean, read it and it is so b-a-d advice and teaching . His book on prayer is another simplistic man-centered advice.

His SofL pamphlets range from outdated (bobbed hair and bossy wives was 75 years out of date when he wrote it). Think I've pretty much tossed any other stuff he wrote.

At least JRR still has more credibility in his writing than his prodigy Hyles did (who wrote how to raise children!)

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
John R was an old codger but a gentleman in preaching style - unlike the younger, spit-on-the-fifth-row types with whom he was often linked in the Sword Conferences (think Hyles)

His writings - like commentaries on Matthew, Acts are very simplistic and not even much value for a SS teacher.

His book on marriage and family is laughable. I mean, read it and it is so b-a-d advice and teaching . His book on prayer is another simplistic man-centered advice.

His SofL pamphlets range from outdated (bobbed hair and bossy wives was 75 years out of date when he wrote it). Think I've pretty much tossed any other stuff he wrote.

At least JRR still has more credibility in his writing than his prodigy Hyles did (who wrote how to raise children!)

Dr. Bob, I am amazed at how you can bottle, stopper, and sell a man so offhandedly. Well, ole JRR (not Tolkien) may have been simplistic and old-fashioned but he sure won a lot of souls to Christ, strengthened a lot of churches, and encouraged a lot of pastors. According to their own testimonies, husbands, wives, and children were all blessed by his ministry and writings.

As you probably well know, JRR did not have an earned doctorate—it was unaccredited honorary. Perhaps old-fashioned, simplistic JRR will hear the coveted “Well done . . . .” from our Saviour Himself at the Judgment Seat. IMO, that’s far better than the PhD’s and ThD’s along with all the other academic babbles of the pious and sophisticated intelligentsia in the world. For some, it may be like the Pharisees who loved the praise of men: they have their reward.

However, it appears that God uses simple, humble men. After all, it was a bunch of ignorant and unlearned fishermen, not PhD theologians, who turned the world upside-down for Christ. Perhaps old pride and ego gets in the way of others.

Thanks, Dr. Bob, for your kind consideration.

 

[Pastor KevinR]

I grew up with JRRice as my "hero" and still hold him as such. When I was KJVO I used to be disturbed that he quoted from the ERV in his book on prayer. Speaking of this book, I have read it through several times as it has helped me tremendously, however, I do agree with Dr Bob that it tends to be man-centered in some places..almost like some of the Pentecostals teach today about prayer. I met him when I was a kid, he came to my church around 1970 and during "the Invitation" he walked up and down the aisle, and I stared at him in awe and he said to this little boy, "Are you saved?" and I just lied and said, "yes"...I lied to JRRice! At the time, I thought I was saved, but in 1974 I truly became born again.
Speaking of the Sword, I still subscribe, although sometimes I ask myself, "why?" in many ways today it is a tabloid. The current editor wrote some critical article(s) about the very conservative Southwide Baptist Fellowship because they dared to have preachers that do not follow the Baptist Pope's worship style, KJVOnlyism, etc. When I read the first article, about the SBF 2002, I was very determined to attend...and felt sad about the elitism and seeming arrogance from the "Pope". I attended a small Preacher's Fellowship in Long Island a few months ago where they tore down the SBF too!

..and I might add, bragged about their Conference as holding true to the spirit of Hyles, the Bible (KJV), etc. (BTW, I only attended one morning, because my former Pastor was there, whom I hadn't seen in a long while, whom I still love and respect, even though he follows now this unfortunate brand of Fundamentalism.

 

[Tractster]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
John R was an old codger but a gentleman in preaching style - unlike the younger, spit-on-the-fifth-row types with whom he was often linked in the Sword Conferences (think Hyles)

His writings - like commentaries on Matthew, Acts are very simplistic and not even much value for a SS teacher.

His book on marriage and family is laughable. I mean, read it and it is so b-a-d advice and teaching . His book on prayer is another simplistic man-centered advice.

His SofL pamphlets range from outdated (bobbed hair and bossy wives was 75 years out of date when he wrote it). Think I've pretty much tossed any other stuff he wrote.

At least JRR still has more credibility in his writing than his prodigy Hyles did (who wrote how to raise children!)

Thanks, Dr. Bob.

I plan to order some of Rice's preaching tapes. I appreciate the perspective you've shared.

Roscoe

 

[Dan Todd]

My grandmother was saved in a JRR evangelistic meeting - I'm thankful for that.

I used to get "Sword of the Lord" when JRR was the editor. He used to print a lot of C H Spurgeon messages - but he never told us when he edited out the sovereignty (election) stuff.

Dan

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I was always of the impression that JRR was a fudamentalist after the fashion of R.A.Torrey.That it was and is more important to be saved and be a Christian was more important than being a Baptist. JRR may have been simplistic,but if we put our life side by side with his how do we compare?I have heard he was a gentle man.I have heard he was a man who loved to win souls to Jesus Christ our Lord.I have heard he was a man of prayer.I have heard he was a man who loved to disciple children of God.
What a shame it is that the new editor of the Sword has taken it down the path it is on.What a shame That many IFB preachers have forgotten or turned thier back on John R. Rice.

 

[rbrent]

Have you read the Biography of John R. Rice by Robert Sumner?

DR. JOHN R. RICE BIOGRAPHY ON EBAY

 

[menageriekeeper]

When I was a kid if JRRice said it then it must be right. I was raised on the Sword of the Lord. In our house it was second only to the Bible for Godly instruction.

I am glad to hear others say though that the Sword is not what it used to be. Somewhere in the years between 1980ish and the time my father purchased me a lifetime subscription, maybe 1995ish, something changed. The paper turned from being good Bible instruction to being very critical and unloving to any who dare to believe differently than the Sword publishers.

These changes must have happened very gradually. While to me it was a drastic change from what I remember as a child my father still considers it to be authoritative. He doesn't see the lack of a loving attitude toward other Christians as a problem. I am not always able to put into words how I feel about the Sword, but it is an attitude change.

JRR might have been simplistic and old fashioned but he truely had a heart for the unsaved. Isn't that how we all should feel?

 

[Pastor KevinR]

When Curtis Hutson took over around 1980 (81?)he brought Sword towards KJVOism, etc. (I was "called to preach" when he conducted Revival Mtgs at my Church in Louisville in 1977) Year after year however, he seemed to get closer and closer to the KJVO's, although I am not sure how far he believed it. I think he might be what you call KJVsp (Strongly preferred). He aslo didn't take too kindly to Calvinists. The current editor in my view is KJVO fully, except he won't say (that I know of)that the English corrects the Original. I honestly feel that the current editor sees himself as an IFB Pope! He has been very critical of even the most conservative IFB Pastors, churches, and colleges. It is a sad day for the Sword. (And, yes, I still subscribe! go figure)

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Yes, I notice it. I highly respect DR. Curtis Hutson well. I already met Dr. Hutson in person three times. I enjoyed heard his sermon, his sermons were so clear and simple. DR. Hutson knew some sign langugae! His daughter(I forget which one- Mrs. Campbell?) used as intepreter for deaf before.

I hear John Rice often by read books, and maginaze of the Sword of the Lord often. But, I never meet him in person, because I was so very young boy, and not yet saved that time.

I wish I could have meet him in a perosn live. But I will meet him in heaven.

Anyway, yes, I notice Dr. Curtis Hutson changed little bit after Dr. Rice's death. He emphasis on KJV more than Dr. Rice does.

Also, Dr. Hutson's defintion or preach on 'repentance' is much different as what Dr. Rice said on it.

Dr. Hutson more likely close to easy believism than Dr. Rice.

Because Both Hutson and Hyles are good friend.

Dr. Hutson said, repent means change mind.

Dr. Rice said, repent means turn away from sin and toward God with sorrowly repentance.

That why so many churches do not emphasis on repentance today.

More churches use easy believism, cause revivals in America declining so fast because many 'Christians' still have the same old habit sins, because, they seem not serious repent toward to God enough.

We need back to old fashion witness gospel again on repentance to lost people.

Dr. Shelton Smith seems still use easy believism same as Hutson does.

Even, Dr. Smith emphasis on KJV so very strongly . Seems to me he is close to KJVO.

One thing that I do not like what The Sword of the Lord saying, they always attack against SBC all the time since Dr. Rice to Dr. Smith now.

I am IFB, but, I respect SBC well, because both are almost same doctrine. Even some SBC churches are better than IFB churches in America!

There is NO difference between IFB and SBC, both are same in the Lord's sight.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[john6:63]

Originally posted by Tractster:
I plan to order some of Rice's preaching tapes. I appreciate the perspective you've shared.

Roscoe

Here's a link to SermonAudio.com which features a few sermons by John Rice.

SermonAudio.com