Question about the Mormon Jesus

DHK,

In a rush ...... but that was so cool about your "John 3:16" story!!!!!!!!!

Are we on the same thinking now then?
I explained what I thought Jesus was etc etc ..... divine and so on .....

so? are we together on what it was like for a newborn child of God?


Glorious.

 

DHK:

You've opened yourself up to ridicule with your statement that you
were so unlearned of even how to find a verse. Do you really think
that at that stage you totally understood the deep mysteries of the
God/Jesus connection?


Glorious:

Enjoyed your testimony of how you prayed to God....without further
awareness of a Triune God etc. I really think that is quite normal
with most people. Coming from the sect that I did where it wasn't even
taught that God is Triune, you may or may not understand that

 

Salvation is very simple. It is as simple as I explained to glorious. It is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. His sacrifice pays the penalty for your sins that you might be forgiven. If you call upon His name and receive Him as Lord and Saviour you shall be saved. But realize that the one whom you call Lord is Lord, i.e., God. He is not just a prophet or man. It is so simple. Someone explained this to me using a Bible. I grew up without a Bible, hence my ignorance of the Bible.
DHK

 

Unfortunately, your ignorance of the Bible continues:

(1 Pet 3:21 NIV) and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

This thread really doesn't need to be hijacked on a discussion about baptism. The verse does say "the like figure," denoting that baptism itself is not what saves, but is symbolic of what saves. Only Christ can save. Water gets you wet. Reading the previous verse water was an agent of destruction, not salvation, as all that were baptized in the water were destroyed. Obviously that is not what it refers to. Baptism is a picture of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and symbolizes our death to our old life of sin, and our resurrection to a new life in Christ. It is purely symbolic, and nothing more.
DHK

 

(DHK)

I don't believe a person can be saved without realizing that Jesus is
God. If they don't know that Jesus is God, how do they know they
have the right Jesus. Maybe you called on the Mormon Jesus--a created
being of a sexual union between a god and a goddess.
Maybe you called on 3AM's version of Jesus, who is another Jesus
because He is not the Most High God, but a lesser god. Maybe you
called on the J.W. Jesus, Michael the Archangel. Maybe you called
on the Muslim Jesus, just another prophet. Maybe you called on the
Hindu Jesus, one of many gods. Just what Jesus did you call on if
He was not God?


(Singer)

You forgot Santa Claus )

Patience Singer, Patience........

How could I call on all those imaginary gods that I'd never even heard
of...? It's not up to me to line up gods and then take a choice.
The shepherd is automatically within earshot of his sheep and he cares
enough to ward off the enemy that might lead one astray.

So now you have me unsaved for the first 20 years. If so, that would make
me wonder how and when I was actually saved then according to your
standards. After awareness of the Trinity, I never had to go back and renig
on any previous god as it was the God of Abraham that I summoned in the
first place. With your theories, you'd have the whole Catholic and Adventist
faiths plus who knows whoelse......... UNSAVED !!

Patience Singer.........

 

Singer,
Perhaps that is why Paul wrote to the Corinthian church, a church that he himself started, and said this to them:

2Cor.13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Remember the entire epistle was written to believers. But he says to them you better make sure of your salvation.

 

So what do you propose ?

 

I would propose to anyone who is the slightest bit unsure of their salvation to make sure of it. Pray again. Trust Christ, the One whom you now know to be our Lord and God, as your Saviour. Realize that it was because he was a perfect and sinless man that he could die for sinners as us. And that only as God he could die for all that are in the world. It is His blood that atones for your sin. Receive him, and thank him for forgiveness of sins, and eternal life.

Salvation is like a marriage. In fact it is. I become part of the bride of Christ. Just as I remember the day I got married, I ought to remember the day I got saved. Or perhaps in this case made sure of my salvation--whatever the case you think it is. You know your heart. And God knows your heart. Now the situation is between you and God.
God bless you,
DHK

 

Thanks DHK,

Been there...Done that....26 years ago!!!!

He saved me then and I ain't gonna call Him a liar by
doubting the conditions of my salvation due to the limitations
called 'humanity'.

We still see as through a glass darkly because that which is
perfect has not come yet.

Uhoh...........we've been down this road before!

God Bless you too,
Singer

 

DHK,

I dont remember the day I was "saved".

the specifics are muddied senseing that I had to be educated about what had occured. But I do remember very specifically the day I accepted Jesus Christ As My Lord...
The day I mentally recognized he actually rose from the dead and that I accepted by faith those historical facts to be a reality to me.

although I agree that we are given a spirit..much like a baby at first. and one in which grows in wisdom and understanding within us. as a child, an adolescent and finally a full grown adult spirit. yet I dont comprehend that we are a member of the "class" of bride upon being given our new spirit.

but yet only after agreeing that jesus is Lord at some point in our spiritual growth..

which can take some many years of trials and testing by God..I hear the bible in many points speaking to believers at various levels of comprehension..some in the bride and not others.

remember the parable of the ten virgins ?

I read that you used the term..believe on the lord jesus and thou shalt be saved..The title Lord jesus is a very large leap from the level of Comprehension of understanding that
Jesus is ones "Savior only".

would you agree or do you think that one accepts jesus as lord and savior at one time only. and that salvation is not a timed event...or that one can accept Jesus as savior and then possibly later as lord based on a change in level of faith, understanding, comprehension and mental capability.

I myself see a believer as some that are a part of the bride..while other being also saved positionally but yet are not a part of the bride (or elect) and still experiencing the spiritual growing process.

Me2

 

When I gave my life to God, I didn't feel much either.
I just knew that I had a strong desire to live for Him, to love Him and to have him indwelling!

I don't remember much at all ... I just "grew".

I've had quite a number of "growth spurts" over the years. I've had special experiences with God. I know Him and I love Him now.... I'm not sure how it got to this stage .... but I sure know he is my Saviour now!

I don't believe we are all like the apostle Paul ... with the scales falling from his eyes.
Everyone has their own personal experience.

 

Neither does my wife. She was saved around the age of seven. But she does remember the events that surrounded it--her mother explaining the gospel once again to her, though she had heard it before, praying and asking Christ as Lord into her heart. Remembering that she was in the kitchen at the time. She realized who Christ was: God, the second person of the trinity. It was an event that she can still point to, that took place in time and history. It is not an on-going process.

She did not understand everything about being part of the bride of Christ either. I used that as an illustration. One doesn't have to know everything about or in the Bible to be saved, but there are certain basic things in the gospel that one must understand to be saved. Paul said that if one comes and preaches any other gospel to you let him be accursed. It holds true. If someone comes and preaches any other Christ of the gospel let him be accursed.

"Call upon the name of the name of the LORD[/] Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." (Rom.10:13) If you did not call upon the Lord, then who did you call upon? If you did not realize that He was Lord then when you called upon Him how can you be saved. That is how one is saved, by calling upon the name of the LORD Jesus Christ.

Why on earth would it take years to understand that Jesus is both Lord and Christ (God). I am sure that I understood this by the age of 5, and I wasn't even saved.

Any body can be your saviour. I once had a saviour that saved me from drowning. But not any body can be your saviour and save you from the penalty of your sins. Not anybody can save you from Hell. Only God can do that. Which Saviour did you trust?

No, I don't agree. If he is not the Lord (as the Bible defines it} and Saviour of your life, at the time of your salvation, you are not saved. Salvation is not a process. It is a one time event. Marriage is not a process it is a one-time event in history. I am not continually going through a marriage process. It happened, once in history. The pastor does not remain in my home repeating the ceremony over and over again.

A believer grows spiritually. He who has been saved, not is being saved.
DHK

 

DHK,
I completely agree that the mormon Jesus is from another Planet..and well, their religion is far too complicated to diasassemble and re-invent..It must be destroyed.
sorry wrong Jesus..

But now the sanctification process is (imo) being misrepresented by your explanation. Your perspective seems to be all or nothing. Yet I witness far too many people accepting Jesus as their savior but hold onto their personal sins and idols and are pretty Entrenched, sitting on their own thrones as lords of their life...
but thats Gods problem..

my beliefs are surrounded by God (imputing righteousness) giving us our new spirit..or to say in another way..uncovering our eyes and ears first before any communication can be continued.

without the spirit ,our carnal reasoning or understanding is opposed..not attracted to the things of God.

we receive the spirit first. yet we dont know what or why.remember..we ask not...God Chooses.
and we are later introduced to the "facts". and only until being tried by fire can we even begin to contemplate needing a lord, a Leader, or A King..

your explanations drops all these decisions on someone without a hint of explanation or necessity of reason of proof. our carnal mind would not accept anything or even it would become paralyzed without reason or need.

now your reasonings leave me with possibly people who return to their sin after acknowleging Jesus As their Lord..

or your view is they were never Saved?

how did they learn without the actual spirit within them? seeing that God spirit speaks to like kinded spirit. and at the same time..their carnal resoning would still be repelled at the very thought of the things of God.

and as you know...with God its all or nothing.

how can anyone understand What God means by Giving up everything in their life pertaining to their spirit,soul and body..when they cant even comprehend what a spirit even is....or does.

Me2

 

Me2
"He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son hath not life."
It is that simple. You either have the Son or you don't. You either accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour at one point in your life or you didn't.

"My sheep here my voice and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life, ane they shall never perish."
At what point did you become one of God's sheep? You were not always God sheep. You became one when you trusted Christ as your Lord and Saviour if you did. That was an act, an event, a one-time event in the history of your life.

"Verily, verily I say unto you, Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."
When were you born again? At what time and place were you born into God's family? When did you come out of the devil's family and enter into God's family. You were not always a part of God's family. You had to born into it. Were you born into God's family? If so, when?
Salvation is not an on-going process; it is a one-time event. The sanctification of the believer goes one during the believers life changing him day by day. But that is a different topic.
DHK

 

I dont remember the first time I was born. but when I was capable of understanding I was..I did.

as far as the second time I was born..again I learned what happened after the fact.

and neither time did I have the opportunity of understanding who my parents would be...
or what would happen..

I learned what happened after the fact.


the similarities are spooky... aren't they

 

DHK,

wow, A little mystery...

Within the Entire Book of 1 John..you know the book where you used the quote:

1 john 5:12) He that Hath the Son hath life and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life...

do you recognize that the Title of Lord Jesus Christ wasn't used once...I'm thinking that The Title or office of Lord wasn't being used as a subject reference.

maybe... Jesus and the office of being the Christ?

my take would be that John was referencing to the children in Christ..those people who hadn't chosen Jesus as their Lord or even had been tried by God as to their comprehension considering surrendering to the things that John was warning them to stay away from. they were not completely dead to the works of the flesh yet.


5:1) whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is Born of God....

nope..no mention of the title of lord..
just the office or title of christ

if the mention of christ is here..that must mean that they do not maintain the level of sanctification of approaching the father themselves..they need a high priest..a go between God and themselves.

the young man stage is next whereas their loyalties of accepting Jesus as Lord is tried. that is when Lord is mentioned and no longer do young men require a high priest as a go between. they have reached the level of sanctification and can go to the father themselves without the need of a high priest.
they have become high priests themselves.


Me2

 

Hi there Mr DHK

I basically had two experiences.
The first one was when I was 19, and I gave my life to God. This is what I am talking about .... I didn't know much about what it meant etc, but I did have a desire to do this.

Well, there is a two part answer to that question. Firstly, I stood to my feet in a service in our church, when they asked if there is anyone here who wishes to give their life to God.
Secondly, I had a desire in my heart to serve God and love Him.

I honestly don't know how to answer this. I said to God, that I repent and wish to belong to him now and forever. Is that the answer to that question?

Answered above.


I believe I had another very personal experience with God only last year. I finally, after all these years felt as though I connected heart to heart with God.

Now, Please explain this then:

So, I gave my heart to God when I was 19. Over the following 20 years I remained in the church, participating fully in our church meetings and baptism and you name it. I married a man from our church, and we had children. We entered into serving God with everything we had.

Over the years I grew (as discussed) and noticed I had a relationship with God. He spoke and directed me, and I responded. It was quite exciting. I loved it. I saw little miracles in my life .. such as being able to forgive someone when I couldn't do it in my own strength.

But through all this, I felt I was missing something.

Last year I met a christian person, someone not in our church, but I feel sure God sent him. I sometimes think he was like a punching bag (poor guy) and all I did, was punch all my frustrations of feeling I was missing something .. onto him. He took it all and helped me work through my insecurities as far as God went.

Finally I remember the day with total clarity, when I felt the heavens opened and God and I were totally united.

Thats how it still is.

And so .... even though I was saved all those years, I did not have the full measure of a close relationship with God.

Now I do.

Thats my story, for what its worth to you, and thats why I say, I didn't feel much at the time I made a decision to serve him. It grew slowly, without me hardly knowing... until last year when I hit jackpot

Glorious

 

The deity of Christ is affirmed many times throughout First John, though not in the exact words you may want it to. For example, in 1John 2:

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
--This is but one passage that affirms the deity of Christ. 1John 5:7 is a clear affirmation of the trinity.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

One of the purposes of this epistle was to show that Christ is both man and God at the same time. You can't miss it.

The Christ: "the anointed one," "the Messiah"

There is One Great High Priest: that is Jesus Christ.
There is one Mediator: that is Jesus Christ.
There is one Saviour: that is Jesus Christ.
There is one Lord: that is Jesus Christ.
There is one God: that is Jesus Christ.
There is only one way of salvation: that is through Jesus Christ.
There is only one sacrifice for sins: that is Jesus Christ.
There is only one Way; One Truth; One life: that is Jesus Christ.

Christianity is not being a universalist; it is being a believer and a disciple of the Lord God Jesus Christ.
DHK