37818
Well-Known Member
Revelation 20:, ". . .the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. . . ."
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Question concerning sin.
- Thread starter agedman
- Start date
Excellent question!
John’s statement is concerning the believers who violate in some manner the principles of either/or God or a failure to guard against the wiles of the devil. This is not “sin” as what would condemn (for there is no condemnation in Christ) nor is it disposable but what would hinder the work.
John said, “if we say we have no (not) sin(ed), we make God a liar.”
No person lives without sin, however, the sin is no longer what condemns a person. It is lack of belief.
All will die in their sins, but not all have the benefit of the victory over the death and grave. Only believers.
Note: Although I am responding (I hope) faithfully to the article’s presentation, I am also long posting on theBB that the blood shed was for all sin of the whole creation. That is not universalism, because there is no “automatically saved” just because the blood was shed. No one is redeemed without the direct work of the Father giving to the Son that person by name to be redeemed. All given will be redeemed and none others.
This verse is accurate. “The wages of sin is death” and all humans die physically, but only believers are not facing the judgment.
One who dies in their sin is the condition we all physically enjoy, it is afterward, that the believers life goes on, we are transitioned from this physical dwelling into that which The Scriptures present as “not yet appearing what we shall be but we shall be like Him.”
Though we all still sin, “there is no condemnation to those in Christ...” and that is the difference.
Condemnation is not brought be Sin, it is from lack of belief. (John 3)
Do believers then have permission to sin without rebuke? (Romans)
“All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient”.
Yes, certainly, just as believers will stNd befor Christ to give an account.
The difference is what condemns the unbelievers?
It is not sin, it is unbelief.
Yes, to assign them their final state
37818
Well-Known Member
Maybe as to degree. But their names not being in the book of life, Revelation 20:15, Revelation 21:8.
37818
Well-Known Member
And sin per Revelation 21:8, all liars.
Also Revelation 21:27.
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Does not the Scripture say, “if we say we have no sin, we make God a liar...”
Sin is certainly an issue with humankind, but what do the Scriptures teach concerning the estate of the believer?
“There is therefore no condemnation....”. And again, “nothing can separate us from the love of God...”
Physical death is one part of the consequence of the fall.
Notice the text says to the ungodly...you shall die in your sins...plural.
Unbelief is a sin, but the text is clear those remaining in the realm of spiritual death face the wrath of God against all sin and ungodliness.
Roman's one is unmistakably clear.
There are degrees of punishment in the second death.
All sin will be exactly punished.
37818
Well-Known Member
Those in the New Covenant have the promise their sins will not in any way be remembered, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Hebrews 10:17.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Which doesn’t answer the question. Why did John tell us to confess our sins to God and He would be faithful to forgive our sins if the death of Jesus already obtained that forgives for those sins?
peace to you
Their names never were in the Book of life, as ONLY the saved ever get in there!
37818
Well-Known Member
Then why then the need for an added promise to never blot the name out if the name had not already been in the book? Revelation 3:5, standard cross references being Exodus 32:32-33 and Psalms 69:27-28. My view, the names start out in the book.
The OT books were recording the physical living in Israel, and their names being blotted out meant God was killing them off, nothing to do with lambs Book of Life
37818
Well-Known Member
So what is therefore the need to promise never to blot one's name out of the book in Revelation 3:5? Your view suggests salvation can be lost before overcoming.
A promise that means one whose name is in there can never be blotted out
37818
Well-Known Member
Yes, after having overcome per Revelation 3:5.
Jesus already has overcome the world for us!
37818
Well-Known Member
Revelation 3;5, ". . . He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. . . ." Doesn't say what you claimed.
I agree and as a result all will meet that fate.
I agree just as all will die in their sins. The problem isn't death, the determination of what takes place after death rests upon whether a person is a new creature in Christ or not.
Here is the text:
21Then He said to them again, “I am going away and you will seek Me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you are not able to come.”
22Therefore the Jews were saying, “Will He kill Himself, that He says, ‘Where I go, you are not able to come’?”
23And He was saying to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
25Therefore they were saying to Him, “Who are You?”
Jesus said to them, “Just what I am saying to you from the beginning. 26I have many things to say and to judge concerning you. But the One having sent Me is true; and I what I have heard from Him, these things I say to the world.”
27They did not understand that He was speaking to them about the Father. 28Therefore Jesus said to them, “When you shall have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing from Myself; but as the Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29And the One having sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do the things pleasing to Him.”
What I do see is what we both agree, that one without Christ faces the results of unbelief and one who is a believer is given everlasting life (in the next portion of the text not copied.)
Surprisingly, The Romans 1 passage states exactly how that wrath is manifested.
Such is done while that person is still living, and not after death.
The Scriptures are "unmistakably clear" that when folks face the judgement seat of God, they are not condemned because of the deeds of the flesh.
They are justly judged by the book of life. No name - no life.
This is important for even a believer who engages in the type of depravity will suffer the mental and physical judgment of God, yet as Romans 8 states that there is no condemnation with those in Christ Jesus.
I am not presenting that the believer can sin without rebuke. I think that is the reason John is concerned that believers truthfully confess and are cleansed. (John 1)