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Question for Calvinists
- Thread starter Van
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
For sure that is a conversation I would like to hear from the beginning. I really wish you would start a topic with whatever statement and supporting verses are buried in some unknown to me topic.
I would like to hear what you actually said before commenting, but one initial thought is that throughout the OT God was never shy about choosing and favoring one “people” over another, so I would not be as quick as some to immediately dismiss the claim as “outrageous” without hearing it in detail.
What we would say is abhorrent and awful about racism is that a person doesn't have a choice and they were born this way.
So if someone was born black and not the CHOSEN WHITE RACE "sorry God made you inferior" plenty of us would think wow that is horrible, its not his fault.
CALVINISM is the exact same way. Except instead of the COLOR of your skin its the color of you ELECTION. Those who are BORN ELECT are superior and they were chosen since before they were born with their SUPERIOR SPIRITUAL SKIN. The other reprobates are inferior and were hated by God unconditionally passed over.
Skin color, eye color, hair color , you were born without choice of any of those things. Likewise you were chosen ELECT or an INFERIOR REPROBATED hated by God without reason before the foundation, before you even existed.
So if someone was born black and not the CHOSEN WHITE RACE "sorry God made you inferior" plenty of us would think wow that is horrible, its not his fault.
CALVINISM is the exact same way. Except instead of the COLOR of your skin its the color of you ELECTION. Those who are BORN ELECT are superior and they were chosen since before they were born with their SUPERIOR SPIRITUAL SKIN. The other reprobates are inferior and were hated by God unconditionally passed over.
Skin color, eye color, hair color , you were born without choice of any of those things. Likewise you were chosen ELECT or an INFERIOR REPROBATED hated by God without reason before the foundation, before you even existed.
Lets see, your presentation of atonement included mention of Jesus. But then you say it has nothing to do with Jesus. Folks this is obfuscation. And of course some translations render a Greek word as atonement.
Here we have exposed yet another fallacy built on a fallacy. The Calvinist actually believes if Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, God failed. Absurd but here it is.
1 Peter 2:9-10
Why not go with the biblical answer, God chooses individuals who bring Him glory?
LOL, this person asks questions, but does not answer them. I guess the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" was not a command of Christ. No instead he has Jesus advocating evil.
I have explained this many times. 1 Peter 2:9-10.
Utter deflection, addressing me and not the topic. Christ died for all mankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved.
You made the statement, I just asked for you to support it Scripturally. If you can't , that's fine.
Concerning your question to me about TULIP, I have said before I do not try and defend TULIP. My views align with Calvinism, but are not always the same. So, I'm not going to try and defend it though it certainly has merit.
I have never had Jesus advocating evil. That is your interpretation of what I said. It is not what I said.
Quantrill
You say 'we'. Is 'we' Christian?
Well, you didn't have a choice as to what race you were born in...did you? Do you think your birth into a certain race was haphazard? Did God not have say and control over that? As a matter of fact, you didn't have any say that you would be born at all. Did you? Did God ask your opinion as to whether or not you should be created? Is God awful and abhorrent for that?
Do you believe God has no control over the nation you are born in, over the parents you have? Or is that also haphazard? Just a coin toss. Too many to keep track of. Is that what you believe? If so, that is so strange since God knows down to the exact number, the very hairs on your head. (Luke 12:7) It is inconsistent to think God cares not for the race, nation, or family you are physically born into, yet keeps track of the hairs on your head.
Your accusation of 'superior' and 'inferior' pertaining to those elect and those not elect, is misguided. It is not a question of 'superiority'. It's a matter of 'this is how it is'.
I would never say God hates without reason. I doubt any Calvinist would either. If God hates, which He does, He has reason for it. Perhaps He should have talked it over with you first to see if it was alright for Him to hate certain ones. Apparently He isn't aware of the SPLC.
Quantrill
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
And I have gone over the entire context with you.
1 Peter 2:1-17 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.
Reading the context, we can see it's not corporate. We can see that it's individual's who are chosen by God.
Utter deflection, addressing me and not the topic. Christ died for all whom the Father has given him. Those from the past, the present and the future whom God has chosen.
By your assertion, every human is saved by Jesus shed blood atoning for their sins. Yet, you insert a legalism (not grace) when you insist that faith must be activated, by the individual, in order for the atonement to be effective. Thus you insert the law as your means of salvation.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
The problem is the OP doesn't want to look at context, just cherry-picked verses.
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