Originally posted by whatever:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
I asked the question, “which am I”. This is a leading question to be sure, but none have ventured forth to give an opinion. So I’ll answer that I am neither. I just do not believe in “theology” that comes by man.
Christian faith, ituttut
I read the post on page 9 (I think) where you asked the question, and you didn't give enough details about what you believe for me to give an opinion.
</font>[/QUOTE]For clarity here is what was given in the post. “As a “free willer”, I am “predestined”. As I am “predestined”, I am a “free willer”. As a “free willer” I have scripture on my side. As a “predestiner” I have scripture on my side.”
I am both. I believe I have “free will”, and I believe I am predestined, and I think I have scripture to back me up. Whenever possible I try to stand on the Word of God, and not pull from what many call the “fathers”, or a doctrine of man.
Below, I hope you can see me in my free will of His predestination, for I chose to be predestined.
By the way, Calvinism didn't come from Calvin. These principles were around way before Calvin's birth, and they were not presented in the form that we commonly see today until many years after his death. And even if it did come from Calvin that would not make it false.
Yes I agree, the viewpoint in Calvin’s theology was changed many times, blooming into five “tulips”, when after his death they were needed to counteract the teachings of one of his former followers, Arminius.
Calvin a great Christian leader of the reformation gave birth to more than the “tulips”, but denominations, of which I believe we Baptist’s are. Had he stayed his course, the Presbyterian denomination may have been more like the Baptist, but he departed from scripture, when in his development of church government turned from the elder system to the hierarchical structure, that from which he came.
I believe Calvin’s source was the Bible. But so is everyone else’s. In the “doctrine” we hold, then we usually feel we have the right interpretation, even though others have doctrine they also believe can be proved by scripture. Some of the following is what I posted just recently on this topic in another forum, which may give further light to what I believe as to our “free will, and predestination”.
The Calvinist and the Arminian are not all “wrong”. They each have enough “right” in them for man to believe within his knowledge that he is right and the other is wrong. Neither of these believers are any more saved that the other, or others who’s views differ from theirs. We all come to our truths as we work out our own salvation.
For me, I have found what I believe does not put into variance His Word on this matter of “free will” and “predestination”. It is nothing New, or unknown, but evidently not circulated. I see “free will”, being foreknown, and also predestined. Also I wouldn't think it to be necessary to be a certain type of “dispensationalist” to see what is divided out for us. For me, I ask God to show me what He will. As time goes on, He has pointed out a few things to me, just as he has to all you here, as we study, looking to confirm, or find a new truth for us.
Predestination is peculiar to Paul, so I believe this is where we start for the simple reason he is the one Christ taught from heaven about this, and other things New, or not understandable until revealed. It is here we find the “eternal purpose” of God.
I believe Paul pretty much lays it out for us in Romans 8, before moving into chapter 9, and then solves our problem in chapter 10, if only we will accept what scriptures reveals to us. After all, are we to be of any that write outside of scripture? God’s Word lives in His Book, so we are not to follow any, regardless of their stature held by man. We must look and study from the source.
I see no contradiction to His Word in what He has shown me. I see it is we that “choose”, and it is He that “knows” us, but we must start with the “purpose of God”.
Romans 8:28-30, ”And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”
Romans 10:12-13, ”For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
He “called” (He first loved us), and we heard His call. Do we all “call” Him back? God says today He is reconciling the whole world unto himself. We know God is not going to save the whole world, but everybody hears his “call”. All do not “call”, or hang-up.
So for me, I see in the verses furnished, we find in Jesus Christ His “eternal purpose” is accomplished. When we answered His “call” we became known of God, and He then did predestine us to be conformed to the image of His Son.
I don’t try to put anyone down, especially great men of God, or any others. I just try to share what I have been shown, as I believe all here do, and in so doing all are made stronger in our faith, by strengthening our position, or learning new one’s, hopefully that do not contradict.
Christian faith, ituttut
