Question for free willers

[Brother Bob]

1. I chose that good part that would never be taken away.

2. I chose that good part that would never be taken away. He chose darkness rather than light.

Now take that put it in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[Bluefalcon]

We obviously have different views of what "will" means. We are not human-made computerized robots. We are God-made human beings. We have a will just as God himself does. God gives the same message to all, enables all to receive it, and God allows man, using his God-made will, either to believe and obey or not to believe and disobey.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
1. I chose that good part that would never be taken away.

2. I chose that good part that would never be taken away. He chose darkness rather than light.

Now take that put it in your pipe and smoke it.

There's nothing there to smoke. It doesn't answer either question.

Q1. I asked what is the difference that you would choose "light" and he would choose "darkness".

Your answer is simply that you chose light and he chose darkness. That reiterates the assumption. The question assumes you chose differently, so why answer it by saying you chose differently? Even a 4 yr old can figure out that's not an answer. It ignores the question entirely. WHY did you choose differently? What was the difference between you that caused you to choose differently?

Q2. Who made the difference between you two that you would choose light and the other darkness?

So you not only ignored the point of the first question, you ignored the second question entirely.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
We obviously have different views of what "will" means. We are not human-made computerized robots. We are God-made human beings. We have a will just as God himself does. God gives the same message to all, enables all to receive it, and God allows man, using his God-made will, either to believe and obey or not to believe and disobey.

Okay, so based on that assumption, then answer the questions:

1. What was the difference between you and the unsaved such that you obeyed and believed, and he disobeyed and did not believe?

2. How do you account for that difference? Who made you different than the other person such that you willingly obeyed, and he willingly disobeyed?

C'mon folks. These are kindergarten level questions and you pretend you can't even understand the questions let alone provide answers.

I'm beginning to think the difference between Calvinists and free willers is that Calvinists have brains.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am beginning to think the difference between Calvinist and everyone else is that Calvinist don't have much of a brain. Let me rephrase that, some of them don't have much of a brain.

What is man that thou art so mindful of him?

He has a soul. He can think!!!! He is able to decern between right and wrong. He was made able to choose. Thank God for that. ( hey! a light came on, get it?).

Are we there yet?

 

[J.D.]

Originally posted by ituttut:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by J.D.:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />When we answered His “call” we became known of God, and He then did predestine us to be conformed to the image of His Son.

"When" indicates a point in time. "Then" also indicates a point in time. So God did not know us until "we answered His 'call'". </font>[/QUOTE]You got it J.D., and you are seeing the dispensations. It is as His Word says, I have “free will”, and I believe I am predestined as I said in the beginning. When did this happen? Just as you say, Quote "When" indicates a point in time. "Then" also indicates a point in time. So God did not know us until "we answered His 'call'", Unquote. You just described the “dispensation we live in”.

Christian faith, ituttut </font>[/QUOTE]Was there a beginning of time, and if so, what existed before time?

Are you an open theist? Do you know what that means?

Are the decrees of God in eternity contingent upon the events of time, or are the events of time the results of the eternal decrees of God?

J.D.
God's Puppet/Robot

 

[Brother Bob]

JD;
I don't know who you are posting those questions to. If me, here are my answers.

God, His Son, Holy Spirit for sure.

I certainly deny atheist.

Depends on what decrees. 1. Events of time; Him seeing that man's heart was evil and He said he would destroy him from face of the earth.
2. Plan of Salvation at a set time. (examples)

theist? Do you know what that means?

Not nice!!

BBob

[ April 09, 2006, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

[J.D.]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
JD;
I don't know who you are posting those questions to. If me, here is my answers.

God, His Son, Holy Spirit for sure.

I certainly deny atheist.

Depends on what decrees.

BBob

BroBob, I was responding to ittuit. But since you weighed in:

"God, His Son, Holy Spirit for sure."

True, True. However, I was looking for something else. I'll wait and see if ittuit answers it.

I certainly deny atheist.

Open theism is not atheism. Again, I'll wait for ittuit's response.

Depends on what decrees.

If ANY eternal decree is contingent on an event in time, how then can it be eternal?

 

[Brother Bob]

JD;
If you had of said who, I certainly would of not weighed in and I didn't say theism was atheism, I said it was not atheism. You misread.

Our life to come has not came yet and it will be eternal from the point it begins.

So now we wait for ittuit, sure hope he don't take too long.

 

[J.D.]

Brobob, you're welcome to weigh in any time. I didn't mean to imply you were not welcome. My post included a long quote from ittuit, that's why I thougt it was obvious who the questions were directed toward.

And I don't mind expanding the conversation to others - I just wanted to get ittuit's replies so I could better understand what he meant.

 

[J.D.]

BroBob, did you edit your post after you posted it? I just looked at again and it's different, or else I need to quit and go to bed.

 

[J.D.]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
theist? Do you know what that means?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not nice!!

What's not nice? I never heard of open theism until about a year ago.

 

[Brother Bob]

JD;

Sorry I just need to go to bed myself. I misread your post and took it wrong. Sorry again,

 

[J.D.]

Brobob, it's easy to misunderstand the motives of people in this media. I think it's what causes a lot of the unnecessarily angry replies. My words are direct and terse, but if you were with me here and we were talking, you would see the real manner in which I'm saying these things. Also, since I can't see your face, it's hard for me to tell when my words are beginning to sting too much.

God bless.

 

[Bluefalcon]

Originally posted by npetreley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
We obviously have different views of what "will" means. We are not human-made computerized robots. We are God-made human beings. We have a will just as God himself does. God gives the same message to all, enables all to receive it, and God allows man, using his God-made will, either to believe and obey or not to believe and disobey.

Okay, so based on that assumption, then answer the questions:

1. What was the difference between you and the unsaved such that you obeyed and believed, and he disobeyed and did not believe?

2. How do you account for that difference? Who made you different than the other person such that you willingly obeyed, and he willingly disobeyed?

C'mon folks. These are kindergarten level questions and you pretend you can't even understand the questions let alone provide answers.

I'm beginning to think the difference between Calvinists and free willers is that Calvinists have brains. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe you did not see it in my post. The only variable is man's will. God deals with all sinners the same. He is not a respecter of persons. He calls all men everywhere to repent. Some will to accept, some will to reject. It's that simple. God did not make me accept, he doesn't make men reject. You appear to think that he does both.

 

[Bluefalcon]

Last time. The difference was none. I was just as lost as the one who rejects God. God enabled me to receive his gift, and I did. God enables others to receive, and they don't. We're the same up to the point of receiving.

Since there was no difference, nobody made the difference.

 

[Bluefalcon]

Originally posted by npetreley:
C'mon folks. These are kindergarten level questions and you pretend you can't even understand the questions let alone provide answers.

I'm beginning to think the difference between Calvinists and free willers is that Calvinists have brains.

I'm beginning to think you're incapable of carrying on an honest intellectual discussion with brothers and sisters in Christ without (a) denigrating them or (b) completely misunderstanding the issues at play. For the former reason this is my last post in response to anything you have to say.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
Last time. The difference was none. I was just as lost as the one who rejects God. God enabled me to receive his gift, and I did. God enables others to receive, and they don't. We're the same up to the point of receiving.

Since there was no difference, nobody made the difference.

Sure there was a difference. To use your words, you did and they didn't. That is a difference. So, why did you, and why didn't they?

 

[Brother Bob]

You act as if "man" were the beast of the field without a soul. If you don't realize that man is made in the likeness of God ( who makes decisions) all the time, and who has a soul, then how will you ever be able to understand man who can make decisions also. Do you believe God can choose? Well if we are made in His likeness, why can't we. Please don't say God predestine me to choose for that is not a choice at all, just something you Calvinist came up with to try and justify your handling of the Scriptures.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
Last time. The difference was none. I was just as lost as the one who rejects God. God enabled me to receive his gift, and I did. God enables others to receive, and they don't. We're the same up to the point of receiving.

Since there was no difference, nobody made the difference.

There has to be a difference. You received it. They don't. What is the difference between you that you receive it but they don't?

Who made that difference?

So far you've offered nothing but doubletalk. How about delivering a real answer?