Question for pre-trib folks...

[DeafPosttrib]

Aki,

You do really need a solid evidence verses find anywhere in the Bible teaching there are two phases of the second coming.

There is no difference between rapture and revelation.

1 Peter 1:13 tells us, we must be stand and holdfast and be blameless life till at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Revelation is same as coming.

Word, 'rapture' is not find anywhere in the Bible. It is "caught up" in 1 Thess 4:17. Actually, rapture goes include harvest time same time. Rapture is also include gathering together at Lord's coming.

No question, rapture is same as harvest at the end of the world in Matthew 13:28-30; 39-42; 49-50; Matt. 25:31-46; Rev. 14:14-20.

Also, the Bible teaches us there shall be the only ONE harvest at the end of the world. I do not see three harvests anywhere in the Bible.

Pretrib believes there are three harvests: #1 Harvest for the Church at rapture before trib. #2 Harvest of the world at Christ's coming after tribulation. #3 Another harvest of the world after the millennium.

That doctrine is so very flaw.

Matthew chapter 13 and Matthew 25:31-46 both teaching us very clear there shall be the only ONE harvest at the end of the world WHEN Christ shall come with His angels. It is so very simple and clear.

Please prove me verses in the Bible, how do you know, there are two phases of the second coming.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Aki,

You do really need a solid evidence verses find anywhere in the Bible teaching there are two phases of the second coming.

There is no difference between rapture and revelation.

Yes, but to say that you have to
ignore this:

------------------------------
Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
Millennial Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
(John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
(Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
(1 Thess 4:16-17)
3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
(Rev 19:6-14)

4R. end of the Gentile Age
(Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
(Revelation 19)

5R. Tribulation period begins
5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
(1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
(Rev 6:12-17)

7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
(Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

8R. Focus: Lord and Church
(1 Thess 4:13-18)
8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
(Romans 11)

9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
judgement.

11R. Time of joy.
11SC. Time of sorrow.

----------------------------------

\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

2 Thessalonians 2:1 (KJV1873):
Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,

Two events mentioned here:
1) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
2) our gathering together unto him

Titus 2:13 (KJV1873):
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Saviour Jesus Christ

Two events mentioned here:
1) blessed hope
2) the glorious appearing of the great God
and our Saviour Jesus Christ

These two events are mentioned seperately
throughout the Bible. The Rapture, which
was a mystery in the O.T. is now mentioned
in the N.T.

Rapture Passages (the gathering):

Matthew 24:31-44
Mark 13
Luke 21
John 14:1-3
Romans 8:19
1 Corinthians 1:7-8, 15:51-53, 16:22
Philippians 3:20-21, 4:5
Colossians 3:4
1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:19, 4:13-18, 5:9,23
2 Thessalonians 1:7, 2:1, 2:3
1 Timothy 6:14
2 Timothy 4:1,8
Hebrews 9:28
1 Peter 1:7,13, 5:4
1 John 2:28-3:2
Jude 1:21
Revelation 2:25

Second Advent Passages
(Jesus comes again in power and glory):

Daniel 2:44-45, 7:9-14, 12:1-3
Zechariah 12:10, 14:1-15
Matthew 13:41
Matthew 24:15-30, 26:64
Mark 13
Luke 21
Acts 1:9-11, 3:19-21
1 Thessalonians 3:13
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, 2:8
1 Peter 4:12-131
2 Peter 3:1-14
Jude 1:14-15
Revelation 4-19

-------------------------------

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
I thought all Baptists were pre-tribbers before I came to the BB. That is all I've ever heard preached in any SBC, GARB, or IFB church I've ever attended. Never heard of it being secret either. Didn't know there was such a bird as a post-trib Baptist. Boy did I get shocked after a few days around here! I'm still not quite over it.

Here is a quick guide:

-----------------------------
Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues - is the same as: <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time - is the same as: <-- you are here
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <-- you are here
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
5. new heaven & new earth

Peterist a-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection <done happened
2. Tribulation time <-- or maybe you are here
3. Second Advent of Jesus event <done happend
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <done happened
5. new heaven & new earth <-- or maybe you are here

Ed recommends the pretrib pre-mill
view as aligning most nearly with Holy Scripture.
Ed recommends:
get Rapture Ready!
Stay Rapture Ready!

--------------------------

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

you saying the same thing repeat and repeat in your own outline. Tomorrow, I will reply back to you on this.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Keith M]

These are two distinct events pictured around the Tribulation. The Rapture occurs before the Tribulation, when those who have passed on and those who ramain alive in the Lord are taken up.

Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17 HCSB)

The other event the Bible speaks of is Christ's return to set up His millennial kingdom.

Then the Lord will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle. On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south. You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come and all the holy ones with Him. (Zechariah 14:3-5 HCSB)

See the difference in the two events? In the Rapture, Christians rise to meet the Lord in the air. In the Second Coming, the Lord's feet will actually come to earth on the Mount of Olives. This is very confusing to many post-trib believers, as they cannot make the two separate events fit together as one, no matter how hard they try.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Ed,

you saying the same thing repeat and repeat in your own outline. Tomorrow, I will reply back to you on this.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

The players keep changing.

Would you have them continue to think we
are all on the same page here when we
are on near a dozen different pages.
And even then, the pre-tribs don't all
agree on details.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
DD,

HOW can you be sure that pre-trib view is correct??? You need the evidences with verses to prove why do you think pre-trib view is correct, please. Thanks.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

This is a common for you. The problem is that the Bible was not written as a dictionary. You can't just look up the word pretrib and find a verse.

I can support the pretrib position by the use of all the N.T. teaching. It isn't about a verse here and there like you amills do. We prefer to take all relevant texts and examine them.

For example, John 14:1-3 and Matthew 24:27-32 are completely incompatible if you make them the same event. Go ahead, the best posttribbers alive can't do it. I would be curious to see your spin.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Isn't 'coming' of Matt 24:30 same as 1 Thess 4:15 -'coming'?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

dpt, similarity doesn't automatically prove sameness.

I had a dachshund (the best possible dog btw). My grandpa had a chow. We had a similar animal, but it wasn't the same.

I have a Ford Taurus. My friend has a Ford F150.

Again, similar vehicles but not the same.

You do understand, right?

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Ed,

I believe what you saying of pretribbers at baptistboard, no one saying rapture is a secert coming.

But, in fact, I have been seen so many pretribbers out there, in books, they saying rapture is a secert coming. So, in the fact that the pretribulationism doctrine actual teaching that the rapture shall come like as "secert" coming. Of course, NOT every pretribbers saying. I am glad that some pretribbers saying raptuyre is not a secet coming.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

It is 'secret' only in the sense that the unbelievers will not understand the significance of what happened. They will know something happened, but not exactly what happened.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Oh. Thank you David Daniel.
That is so simple, it might be right.

Comic relief:

Question: How many Mystics does
it take to change a lightbulb?

Answer: Purple

(note to the humor impaired.
Christian mystics try to resolve all
scriptures with a spiritual meaning
/rather than the occasional physical
meaning/. So i guess it takes a
mystic to really understand the above
"joke". For the rest of us we are
content to realize that to a mysic
it makes some higher sense, which we
common ordinatry humans cannot
hope to ever understand, in this age
or in the next.)

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

I promise I will reply back to you, when my computer is fixed.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

As always, i lift you up daily to the Lord
that you might have a good success and
lots of good blessings. So now i'll mention
you need a fixed computer.