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Question from Galatians
- Thread starter percho
- Start date
........It behoveth you to be born from above; Jn 3:7 YLT
1 A Psalm of the sons of Korah; a Song. His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2 Jehovah loveth the gates of Zion More than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah
4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.
5 Yea, of Zion it shall be said, This one and that one was born in her; And the Most High himself will establish her.
6 Jehovah will count, when he writeth up the peoples, This one was born there. Selah
7 They that sing as well as they that dance shall say, All my fountains are in thee. Ps 87
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In a nutshell, Paul is comparing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant and using Hagar and Sarah and their sons as metaphors. He is saying that the New Covenant is the mother of all of us Christians.
Let me show you in my own paraphrasing.
- Verse 21 - "Tell me, all you people who want to be under the law, don't you know what it says?"
- Verse 22 - "It's written that Abraham had two sons - one by a free woman and one by a slave woman." (This is the figurative language)
- Verse 23 - "The slave woman's son was born ordinarily. The free woman's son was the son of the promise." (He is trying to get them to connect the dots between the "promise" and the New Covenant. The church at Galatians is one of his problem churches. They want to claim that the law, especially circumcision, is necessary for salvation.)
- Verse 24 - "What I am saying is to be taken figuratively - these two women represent the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The Old Covenant, which Hagar (and her son) represents children of slavery and is from Mt. Sinai.
- Verse 25 - "Hagar, which is Mt. Sinai, is the present city of Jerusalem which is in slavery with her children." (enslaved to the law and was a picture of religiousity and Judaism and Judiazers)
- Verse 26 - "But - the Jerusalem that is above is free and she is the mother of all Christians." (The New Jerusalem. Heaven. The New Covenant)
Is THAT what he was asking? The relevance of the word "all"?
Is THAT what he was asking? The relevance of the word "all"?
I feel stupid.
I feel sheepish.
No that was not why I asked. I think all is them gathered at Mount Zion.
Reading the entire verse: "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all". The word 'which' (2nd) would take you back to Jerusalem.
Also the word 'But' would take you back to what has previously been stated.
One interpretation I've read of this verse is: "Jerusalem which is above" is the New Jerusalem in Rev 20. As old Jerusalem is the mother city of those under the Law; so the New Jerusalem is the mother city of the believer under grace.
It is very helpful to give the entire verse(s); if possible, since one little word may have a major impact on its meaning. In this verse;'But', 'free' and 'which' are words which has a direct bearing on understanding the verse.
Exactly right.
Which would you say Ps 87 is referring to?
G
I assumed your are referring mainly to vs 2 and 3. Correct??
vs 2: Zion is the location where the temple is built. At times it has been used as referring to Jerusalem. It is holy in the same manner that the ground around the burning bush was declared Holy by God. (Ex 3: 5)
vs 3: I consider this verse to be a continuation of vs 2. Therefore "O city of God" would refer to Jerusalem.
NOTE: In the eyes of God, Jerusalem is not only a city; but a people. (Mt 23: 37)
One can discuss various aspects of these two verses; ie, Zion, temple, etc; but those should be done outside of this thread.
This is my perspective
raying: There are others more knowledgeable than I.
I assumed your are referring mainly to vs 2 and 3. Correct??
vs 2: Zion is the location where the temple is built. At times it has been used as referring to Jerusalem. It is holy in the same manner that the ground around the burning bush was declared Holy by God. (Ex 3: 5)
vs 3: I consider this verse to be a continuation of vs 2. Therefore "O city of God" would refer to Jerusalem.
NOTE: In the eyes of God, Jerusalem is not only a city; but a people. (Mt 23: 37)
One can discuss various aspects of these two verses; ie, Zion, temple, etc; but those should be done outside of this thread.
This is my perspective
raying: There are others more knowledgeable than I.
I assumed your are referring mainly to vs 2 and 3. Correct??
vs 2: Zion is the location where the temple is built. At times it has been used as referring to Jerusalem. It is holy in the same manner that the ground around the burning bush was declared Holy by God. (Ex 3: 5)
vs 3: I consider this verse to be a continuation of vs 2. Therefore "O city of God" would refer to Jerusalem.
NOTE: In the eyes of God, Jerusalem is not only a city; but a people. (Mt 23: 37)
One can discuss various aspects of these two verses; ie, Zion, temple, etc; but those should be done outside of this thread.
This is my perspective
Are you familiar with this Old Baptist hymn?:
Glorious things of thee are spoken,
Zion, city of our God!
He, Whose Word cannot be broken,
Formed thee for His own abode.
On the Rock of Ages founded,
What can shake thy sure repose?
With salvation's walls surrounded,
Thou may'st smile at all thy foes.
See! the streams of living waters,
Springing from eternal love;
Well supply thy sons and daughters,
And all fear of want remove:
Who can faint while such a river
Ever flows their thirst t'assuage?
Grace, which like the Lord, the Giver,
Never fails from age to age.
Round each habitation hovering,
See the cloud and fire appear!
For a glory and a cov'ring
Showing that the Lord is near.
Thus deriving from our banner
Light by night and shade by day;
Safe they feed upon the manna
Which He gives them when they pray.
Blest inhabitants of Zion,
Washed in the Redeemer's blood!
Jesus, Whom their souls rely on,
Makes them kings and priests to God.
'Tis His love His people raises,
Over self to reign as kings,
And as priests, His solemn praises
Each for a thank offering brings.
Savior, if of Zion's city,
I through grace a member am,
Let the world deride or pity,
I will glory in Thy Name.
Fading is the worldling's pleasure,
All his boasted pomp and show;
Solid joys and lasting treasure
None but Zion's children know.
Here's your chance to hear how the Primitive Baptists from Texas sing it (BTW, Old Baptists sing acappella); scroll to 'Glorious things of thee are spoken' and click on the media player you use. The melody also happens to be the German national anthem.
http://www.paradisepbc.org/singing/singing.htm#G
I'll agree with that when it's understood that Christ reigns now. The writer, John Newton, was post millennial, and was undoubtedly espousing the glorious benefits and truths pertaining to the children of the heavenly Zion now, not somewhere off into the far distant future.
Question for you:
........It behoveth you to be born from above; Jn 3:7 YLT
Was Christ implementing something new here, or was He revealing a mystery from of old, something that had always been?
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Jerusalem refers to several different things in the scriptures.
It is used to refer to physical Jerusalem, to the Jewish nation, to the religious leadership of the Jews, to the old covenant, to the gospel church, and to the eternal glorious city of God that descends from God out of heaven to the new heavens and new earth. I may have missed a few things as well. When people try to make them all mean one thing is where they get in trouble. One must rightly divide the word of truth.
It is used to refer to physical Jerusalem, to the Jewish nation, to the religious leadership of the Jews, to the old covenant, to the gospel church, and to the eternal glorious city of God that descends from God out of heaven to the new heavens and new earth. I may have missed a few things as well. When people try to make them all mean one thing is where they get in trouble. One must rightly divide the word of truth.
kyredneck: "I'll agree with that when it's understood that Christ reigns now."
Since I was accused of 're-directing' on another thread, I'll give this simple reply: Chirst will physically return to earth where he will reign from Jerusalem. He's not there.
PS: I listened to the song!!! Love acappella singing.
Since I was accused of 're-directing' on another thread, I'll give this simple reply: Chirst will physically return to earth where he will reign from Jerusalem. He's not there.
PS: I listened to the song!!! Love acappella singing.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Amen and Amen. Veritas!
You're not going to answer the question? Trust me, it's right on topic with the OP.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with previous posts. :godisgood:
I'm saying that it depends on the particular passage as to what Jerusalem or Zion means.