Question that arose last night...

[DeafPosttrib]

Many Churches believe Malachi chapter 3 still apply to us today. This passage is speak toward priests.

Tithes were part of the Laws-Mosiac.

Through four gospels, you will not find a verse that, Christ saying anything about tithes to his disciples, that it is required.

Even, apostle Paul didn't saying that, tithes is command from God in our present day.

Paul, himself never give tithe to the church. Paul was traveling, to make tents for his own personal business, to selling tent to people.

Also, 2 Cor. 16:1-4, Paul doesn't say 'tithes' in that context. He told them, to bring clothing, food, letters, money, etc, to the storehouse. So, Paul and his partners will come to storehouse, to collect them on the first day of week. Will bring collection to Jerusalem, to give them to the poor people.

Nowhere in New testament telling us, that we are required to give tithes. We can only giving with cheerful heart and freewill with desire. God interests our right attitude.

Nothing wrong with support pastor, missionaries, and church by give money for the offerings. Pastors have to be careful on tithes. Because many pastors are greedy and anxious over financial stuffs. Pastor can asking them to give help the church and missionaries. But, pastors should not push them to give money too much. That are pastors' flesh.

Paul and Christ had their faith, they never ask anyone to pay tithe to them, neither they ask them to give money to them.

Many pastors should have their faith and trust in God. They should not be worry over finance and debts, and also bills too. Pastors can only ask them for help, but NOT push them.

I do believe, God is blessing over Christians for willing to giving money in offerings to support pastor, misisonaries, their church, and poor people too, by upon their desire and cheerful heart with right attitude.

But, giving is not require. Up to us from our heart.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[skypair]

Guys,

Here were my other thoughts when I posted this:

1) Jesus lived under the old covenant and lived it perfectly. So whether He tithed or not would still only be indicative of whether all OT saints were required to tithe.

2) I asked about Paul because he would represent the NT saints in his practice. I don't see him tithing either.

3) I do see many free will offerings in the NT. Some, like 2Cor 8-9 are often invoked so that we either give a "love offering" to ourselves (Bellevue) instead of another poor congregation or to impell tithing.

4) Tithing is "law." The NT believer is not under the law. Do you know what that means? It means that in our flesh we are not bound by any motions of the old law. If we are, "grace is not more of grace but of works." And if we were, we would be "bound to keep the whole law," right?

Grace comes from within -- from our soul and spirit which ARE saved eternally (vice the body which dies because it can NEVER in this present form be completely sanctified). So just admitting the tithe is to say that the body has some merit above that of the spirit (what we have done vice what God told us to do) whereof it might boast (and we often hear tithers boasting or, more particularly, pastors "I been prayerfully giving above the tithe for XX years.")

5) In many cases of the tenth, I see that the whole was given directly from God: a) Abraham's conquest won by God. b) Jacob promised the tenth of all if God prospered him and brought him back to the land. c) Crops and herd are clearly directly given by God.

6) I think we learn to be priests if we administer our own income according to the Spirit in us rather than take the attitude we do with our car -- rather than turning it over to someone who seems to know what they are doing. God wants us to grow into our own "priesthood."

7) We know that Jesus collected money because Judas was robbing from the "bag." Course we are told nothing about how 'the bag' was spent either but no word of tithe.

skypair

 

[standingfirminChrist]

But let's look at tithing:

Matthew 23:23:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

Notice Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter (justice, mercy and faithfulness), without neglecting the former (tithing)." The early church fathers argued, and rightful so, that Jesus word ends the discussion. Since Jesus said not to neglect the former—being tithing—then no believer should neglect tithing.

1. Not all were required to tithe according to the Law... only farmers and herdsmen.

2. Money is not included in the list of things that the Pharisee tithed... only spices.

3. According to the Law, only Levites were tithed to in the Tabernacle... and then they tithed of that to the High Priest. Are the workers in your Church of the Levitical order? Is your Pastor a Levitical High Priest? If not, they are not to receive tithes.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

skypair,

I agree 100% everything what you saying in your recent post. Amen.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[StefanM]

1. Not all were required to tithe according to the Law... only farmers and herdsmen.

2. Money is not included in the list of things that the Pharisee tithed... only spices.

3. According to the Law, only Levites were tithed to in the Tabernacle... and then they tithed of that to the High Priest. Are the workers in your Church of the Levitical order? Is your Pastor a Levitical High Priest? If not, they are not to receive tithes.

I agree.

Let's say, though, that perhaps everyone has to tithe on spices whenever you purchase them.

For all the tithers out there, make sure that you remove 10% of all the cooking spices you bring into your house, package them up, and make sure you get to Jerusalem in short order. :thumbs:

 

[TCGreek]

I think Jesus was making a "jab" at one of the 613 "laws" they had added to the Mosaic Law. Wouldn't it be curious indeed if they didn't have to go and buy their own cumin? Yet they tithed of that which they got by themselves, not from God.

skypair

Good point, skypair. I'll have to look at that again.

 

[skypair]

skypair,

I agree 100% everything what you saying in your recent post. Amen.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Heavens! We must be in glory!! :laugh:

How many years have we known each other -- I think maybe dating back to RR?

Thank you, DP. I enjoy having you around keeping check on me! raying:

skypair

 

[Rubato 1]

How many years have we known each other -- I think maybe dating back to RR?

The Road Runner?
Ronald Reagan?
Roy Rogers?
Roosevelt's Roughriders?
Revere's Ride?

Competition to the BB?