Questionable Doctrines

[Van]

1) Did God make Jesus to be sin for our benefit? Many say yes, some say no.

2) Is fallen humanity innately unable to seek God or trust in Christ?. Some say yes, some say no.

3) Did Christ die only for the previously chosen elect or did Christ die as a ransom for all? Some say for the elect only, many say for all humanity.

4) Can a born anew believer lose his or her salvation? Some say yes, many say no.

5) Were we chosen for salvation through faith, or without regard for our faith? Some say yes, some say no.

6) Are all babies and toddlers saved because they died before the age of accountability? Many say yes, some say no.

Are you aware of other significant doctrines that divide?

 

[ChristB4Us]

1) Did God make Jesus to be sin for our benefit? Many say yes, some say no.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus did experienced that separation from the Father on the cross and when our Creator did that as Our Redeemer, the light went out from the sun and the full moon as a result, where only the lights from the stars could be seen.

Is There Historical Evidence for the Darkness & Earthquake at the Crucifixion? - Christian Evidence

I can understand, if not to some lesser degree, why Jesus prayed 3 times in the Garden of Gethsemane for that cup to pass but He did pray for the Father's will to be done and not His own.

Imagine being left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event; not quite the same thing because He still indwells even in former believers denied by Him & left behind per 2 Timothy 2:10-13, but I can see where the weeping and gnashing of teeth comes from and why God has to wipe the tears from their eyes in getting pass that loss of their first inheritance per Revelation 7:9-17. It is akin to the prodigal son giving up his first inheritance for wild living and although he can never get it back, he is still son as he will be given a robe & a ring; hence be raised up after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth from all over the world in raising up the generations coming from them.

I digress. Sorry.

To be continued ....

 

[ChristB4Us]

2) Is fallen humanity innately unable to seek God or trust in Christ?. Some say yes, some say no.

No man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him per John 6:44 as it is the Father that hides the truth from even the wise and prudent and yet reveal His Son to babes per Matthew 11:25-27 and so one may see with His help, that our believing in Jesus Christ is a manifested work of God per John 3:18-21. Since faith is a fruit of the Spirit per Galatians 5:22-23 and faith comes when hearing the word Romans 10:17 & the Spirit comes when hearing the word Acts 10:43-44, then we may see again how our believing in Jesus Christ at the hearing of the gospel is how we were born again of the Spirit; a work of God.

3) Did Christ die only for the previously chosen elect or did Christ die as a ransom for all? Some say for the elect only, many say for all humanity.

Christ's ransom has the ability to save all but some prefer their evil deeds rather than come to the light to be reproved of them as the Father knows this for why He chooses whom to draw unto the Son in revealing His Son to them so they can believe.

to be continued....

 

[ChristB4Us]

4) Can a born anew believer lose his or her salvation? Some say yes, many say no.

They cannot lose their salvation per Ephesians 4:30 & John 6:39-40 but they can be reprobates and thus disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven for when Christ comes as the Bridegroom and thus becoming castaways. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 & Revelation 2:18-25

When you know that the 5 foolish in Matthew 25:1 are part of that Kingdom of Heaven just as 5 that are wise are, but the foolish missed out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom in Matthew 25:1-13,and yet the five foolish were still in that kingdom of Heaven though. They missed out on the wedding reception because of that work of iniquity for seeking a continual filling of the Holy Spirit for boing out to the market place and thus by that iniquity of denying Him is why He did not know them per Titus 1:16. They need His help to see that iniquity to depart from it to rest in Him as always Spirit-filled as a testimony from God that they are saved per Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35 & Colossians 2:5-10 or risk being left behind.

So it is about what the believer builds on that foundation per verse 10 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 whether it defile the temple of God or not and so if they do not look to Jesus Christ daily to resists sin ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) and prove all things with Him to depart from iniquity be it religious works or supernatural phenomenon that denies Him, then they risk being denied by Him at the rapture, and even though left behind to die per 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, they are still saved per 1 Corinthians 3:15. They become vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood and earth 2 Timothy 2:20 for not departing from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come per 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 as that terror of the Lord is to miss out on being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection to be that vessel unto honor in His house, the vessels of gold and silver that attends the Marriage Supper in Heaven..

to be continued.....

 

[ChristB4Us]

5) Were we chosen for salvation through faith, or without regard for our faith? Some say yes, some say no.

Considering how the Father draws us unto the Son John 6:44 to reveal His Son to us Matthew 11:25-27 so we can believe John 3:18-21, thus faith being a fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22-23 as faith comes by hearing the word Romans 10:17 & the promise of the Spirit comes by hearing the word Acts 10:43-44 then that is why we are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ Galatians 3:14,26

6) Are all babies and toddlers saved because they died before the age of accountability? Many say yes, some say no.

We are all conceived in sin Psalm 51:5 and born in sin as from the womb, we can go astray Psalm 58:3. And yet the God the Father knew us before were born ... before conception even.

Psalm 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Isaiah prophesied from God about Cyrus restoring Israel and Cyrus was not a Jew but a foreign ruler whom was an idolator. Cyrus was prophesied by name over two centuries before he was born!!!!

So the Father knows whom would come to the light from those that prefer their evil deeds to reveal His Son to the unborn that is about to perish in the womb. NOTHING is impossible with God.

To be continued....

 

[ChristB4Us]

Are you aware of other significant doctrines that divide?

Scriptures cannot go against scriptures and so in rightly dividing the word of truth, one needs the Lord Jesus Christ's help to prove all things.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth......

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[37818]

Are you aware of other significant doctrines that divide?

Many believe in the immortal human soul. Some don't.

Many believe in the eternal suffering of the lost. Some believe in annihilationism.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Are you aware of other significant doctrines that divide?

Some believe in a mystical invisible universal "church"; many do not.

Some believe you can trace churches from John the Baptist (not John the Lutheran) to today in apostolic succession; many do not.

Some believe God lied when He gave us eternal life and that we can lose it; many do not.

Some believe sprinkling holy water on a baby makes them a Christian; many do not.

Some believe in a universal flood of Noah; many do not.

Some believe each "day" of Creation in Genesis 1 is just a metaphor for an "age" of millions of years; many do not.

Some believe the Anglican Version (AV1611) in English corrects the inspired Greek words; any do not.

Lots more. Fun to START a thread-a-week with just the concept of ONE of these issues; can't answer them in this thread.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Some believe in a mystical invisible universal "church"; many do not.

Some believe you can trace churches from John the Baptist (not John the Lutheran) to today in apostolic succession; many do not.

Some believe God lied when He gave us eternal life and that we can lose it; many do not.

Some believe sprinkling holy water on a baby makes them a Christian; many do not.

Some believe in a universal flood of Noah; many do not.

Some believe each "day" of Creation in Genesis 1 is just a metaphor for an "age" of millions of years; many do not.

Some believe the Anglican Version (AV1611) in English corrects the inspired Greek words; any do not.

Lots more. Fun to START a thread-a-week with just the concept of ONE of these issues; can't answer them in this thread.

How does a Baptist church keep this ordinance below in verse 10 and is it possible for a Baptist forum to do?

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Granted, banning someone from a forum as a form of excommunication, is it possible for the banned member to notify the staff when he or she has repented? When done by the local church, one can see the person meeting with the church elders and leaders that he or she has repented, but not sure how that would work for an excommunication from a forum in the hopes of leading one to repentance that what they are engaging in as a sinful lifestyle or a false teaching that needs to be repented of..

Heresy is considered a work of the flesh Galatians 19-21 and it seems churches & forums are not leading any believer that believes otherwise to repentance for why many in the latter days are not ready for the Bridegroom for when He comes as He will excommunicate those not ready nor found abiding in Him behind which is not a loss of salvation as 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 but the requirement for attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven as it is for fellowship down here per 1 Corinthians 5:8-11

I know we all have our different growth in our walk with the Lord, but those in error cannot grow when they are definitely in false teaching or mayhap living an unrepentant sinful lifestyle and do not know that Jesus can deliver them from their sin and help them resist that sin daily per Hebrews 12:1-2 .

I wish I knew I was speaking with members that is from the Non-Protestant Baptist affiliation as not coming out of the Catholic Church, but I am seeing a lot of teachings from Pentecostal & Charismatic circles in here along with influences from unbiblical creeds that some Baptist members see nothing wrong with worshipping the Trinity or the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and yet "holy laughter" movement has been reported occurring across the denominational divide and all over the world and even in the Baptist church as I see that broadening of the way in coming to God the Father must be the cause for why many are not heeding His words for why many saved believers are losing self control & falling as they are; Matthew 7:13-27 for why the urgency is to narrow the way back to the Son in coming to God the Father in worship or else Luke 13:24-30

But I reckon the purpose of the rapture is to excommunicate & thereby restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake to avoid the spirits of the antichrist which will be doing ecumenical phenomenon for that one world church.

 

[37818]

Lots more. Fun to START a thread-a-week with just the concept of ONE of these issues; can't answer them in this thread.

There are plenty of such issues that can be discussed. And many probably should be discussed.

 

[Van]

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. SNIP

The word translated "made" in your translation actually refers to the way one entity treats another.

 

[Van]

No man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him per John 6:44 SNIP

No one can trust in Christ unless they have heard and learned from the Father through the gospel.

Christ's ransom has the ability to save all but some prefer their evil deeds rather than come to the light to be reproved of them as the Father knows this for why He chooses whom to draw unto the Son in revealing His Son to them so they can believe.

Yes Christ paid the ransom for all people to provide the opportunity for reconciliation to the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2.

 

[Van]

Many believe in the immortal human soul. Some don't.

Many believe in the eternal suffering of the lost. Some believe in annihilationism.

Excellent additions to the OP, yes both of these are questionable doctrines.

The bible says God forms our human spirit within us, thus with a created beginning, and the bible says few are those who find the narrow way that leads to eternal life, so the rest suffer eternal punishment and receive justice for their sins in Hades and Gehenna. Some read into this truth eternal suffering, but that is a speculative addition to the text. Obviously torment in Hades requires an unpleasant afterlife rather than annihilation immediately following physical death.

 

[Van]

Some believe in a mystical invisible universal "church"; many do not.

Some believe you can trace churches from John the Baptist (not John the Lutheran) to today in apostolic succession; many do not.

Some believe God lied when He gave us eternal life and that we can lose it; many do not.

Some believe sprinkling holy water on a baby makes them a Christian; many do not.

Some believe in a universal flood of Noah; many do not.

Some believe each "day" of Creation in Genesis 1 is just a metaphor for an "age" of millions of years; many do not.

Some believe the Anglican Version (AV1611) in English corrects the inspired Greek words; any do not.

Lots more. Fun to START a thread-a-week with just the concept of ONE of these issues; can't answer them in this thread.

1) When someone is born anew, they become children of God, members of God's family.

2) Yes, "apostolic succession" is a questionable doctrine.

3) Yes, the belief that water baptism, no matter when, contributes to a person's salvation is questionable

4) Yes, the OP point 4 addresses loss of salvation

5) Yes, the size of Noah's flood is debated, and the whole exercise seems pointless.

6) Yes, the whole Old Earth verses Young Earth debate ignores Job 38 which says we do not know specifically how God created creation.

7) Yes, KJV onlyism is a questionable doctrine.

8) Yes, the point of this thread is to consider the many doctrines that divide us, and the reasons. Ignorance of conflicting scripture, pride, desire to help God by fixing scripture, and provincialism, indoctrination over education.

 

[ChristB4Us]

The word translated "made" in your translation actually refers to the way one entity treats another.

You had asked "1) Did God make Jesus to be sin for our benefit? Many say yes, some say no."

And I quoted scripture for why the answer should be "yes'.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus did experienced that separation from the Father on the cross and when our Creator did that as Our Redeemer.

 

[ChristB4Us]

No one can trust in Christ unless they have heard and learned from the Father through the gospel.

Yes Christ paid the ransom for all people to provide the opportunity for reconciliation to the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2.

Yet God the Father can foreknew whom will receive Him and whom prefer their evil deeds.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

That is why Jesus said that there will be times when we come across sinners that do not care to hear the gospel for why we should stop pushing that gospel to those that are walking away form it unless we provoke them.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

We can see how the Father's will was being done as the Word of God trhough the Holy Spirit forbid them to enter certain nations but instead, go to another in the Book of Acts.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

Of course, just as those other nations did receive the gospel at a later time, and so it is with sinners that may reject the gospel but wind up praying for salvation on their deathbed or just before they die due to an unforeseen trauma.

But not everyone will believe the gospel even though the ransom has been paid for them as well and so like a patient rejecting the doctor's antidote for the poison that is in him, so does a sinner in dying and reaping that eternal separation from God & all that is good which is hell, and eventually the lake of fire since hell will be thrown in it as well.

 

[Van]

Yet God the Father can foreknew whom will receive Him and whom prefer their evil deeds. SNIP

Once again a post indicating an unstudied understanding of the Greek word meanings translated as foreknew, foreknown and foreknowledge.

It is a waste of my time to post over and over the actual meanings of those Greek words, as the truth is simply ignored.

 

[Van]

You had asked "1) Did God make Jesus to be sin for our benefit? Many say yes, some say no."

And I quoted scripture for why the answer should be "yes'.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus did experienced that separation from the Father on the cross and when our Creator did that as Our Redeemer.

LOL, now this poster seems to be saying the translation choice he chose is inspired and any other choice is unbiblical. I kid you not.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Once again a post indicating an unstudied understanding of the Greek word meanings translated as foreknew, foreknown and foreknowledge.

It is a waste of my time to post over and over the actual meanings of those Greek words, as the truth is simply ignored.

Readers can discern with Jesus Christ why God the Father draws some but not all as He knows who prefers their evil deeds that be reproved of them.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So prior knowledge is applied as the Father foreknowing which sinner prefer their evil deeds than be reproved of them for coming to the light. That is why He draws some John 6:44 and reveals His Son to some and not others Matthew 11:25-27

 

[ChristB4Us]

LOL, now this poster seems to be saying the translation choice he chose is inspired and any other choice is unbiblical. I kid you not.

And yet you posted this prior

Once again a post indicating an unstudied understanding of the Greek word meanings translated as foreknew, foreknown and foreknowledge.

It is a waste of my time to post over and over the actual meanings of those Greek words, as the truth is simply ignored.

So kind of a "kettle calling pot black" here moment for you. Grow up.