Questionable Doctrines

[Van]

Readers can discern with Jesus Christ why God the Father draws some but not all as He knows who prefers their evil deeds that be reproved of them.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So prior knowledge is applied as the Father foreknowing which sinner prefer their evil deeds than be reproved of them for coming to the light. That is why He draws some John 6:44 and reveals His Son to some and not others Matthew 11:25-27

On and on with off topic nonsense.
Scripture says if Christ was crucified to provide a means of reconciliation, knowledge of His sacrifice will draw them to Him.

And once again, an unbiblical and nonsensical understanding of foreknowledge fuels the absurdity.

 

[Van]

And yet you posted this prior

So kind of a "kettle calling pot black" here moment for you. Grow up.

The ignorant quickly run from actual doctrine, and resort to "against the person" fallacious argumentation.

 

[Van]

1) Did God make Jesus to be sin for our benefit? Many say yes, some say no.

2) Is fallen humanity innately unable to seek God or trust in Christ?. Some say yes, some say no.

3) Did Christ die only for the previously chosen elect or did Christ die as a ransom for all? Some say for the elect only, many say for all humanity.

4) Can a born anew believer lose his or her salvation? Some say yes, many say no.

5) Were we chosen for salvation through faith, or without regard for our faith? Some say yes, some say no.

6) Are all babies and toddlers saved because they died before the age of accountability? Many say yes, some say no.

7) Old Earth versus Young Earth argumentation rather than accepting that we were not there and do not know specifically how God accomplished creation.

8) KJV Onlyism over the use of multiply translations in the New Testament

9) Is the Second Coming of Jesus in our past or future? Many say future, a few say past.

10) When we place our faith in Christ, does our commitment include denying ourselves, our old priorities and behaviors, making following Christ's guidance our overriding priority? Some say yes, others no.

The point of this thread is to consider the many doctrines that divide us, and the reasons. Ignorance of conflicting scripture, pride, desire to help God by fixing scripture, provincialism and indoctrination over education.

 

[ChristB4Us]

The ignorant quickly run from actual doctrine, and resort to "against the person" fallacious argumentation.

Whenever you stop attacking people, you may finally get back on topic. Judge not les ye be judged.. remember that?

 

[ChristB4Us]

The point of this thread is to consider the many doctrines that divide us, and the reasons.

Your next quote is an example for how you are participating in that division.

Ignorance of conflicting scripture, pride, desire to help God by fixing scripture, provincialism and indoctrination over education.

Only God can cause the increase; 1 Corinthians 3:5-7 & James 1:5-8 & Hebrews 4:12-16

Only Jesus Christ can help each believer prove all things 1 Thessalonians 5:21-24 with 1 John 2:20-21 & 1 John 2:26-28

We all have to be open to correction from Him by the actual truth in the scriptures or else we are the prideful ones here.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

That is why Paul has written this in regards to ministering to those that oppose themselves.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The moment you belittle or insult any one by their ignorance, you really think that you would listen any more if they did that to you?

If you have any "talents" for the Lord to use you for you to share, you need His help to stop that, and yet at the same time, be open for any one the Lord may use to correct you to increase in your knowledge of Him so that by accepting that purging, you may bear more fruit.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

 

[Dr. Bob]

It is a waste of my time to post over and over the actual meanings of those Greek words, as the truth is simply ignored.

While Van and I often have disagreements (mostly because he's wrong, but I digress), I agree that his evaluation of this poster is the right move. Waste of time.

 

[ChristB4Us]

While Van and I often have disagreements (mostly because he's wrong, but I digress), I agree that his evaluation of this poster is the right move. Waste of time.

Is it a waste of time to heed His words to avoid being left behind??

Feel free to rightly divide the word of truth below if I am reading this wrong.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Do not let creeds broaden the way for us to come to God the Father by nor create another way to go to the Father by.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

~~~~~~~~~

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

1) Did God make Jesus to be sin for our benefit? Many say yes, some say no.

2 Corinthians 5:21. Whether 'We' have become the righteousness of God in Christ depends who 'we' are, but 'whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved' (Joel 2:32; Romans 10:13).

2) Is fallen humanity innately unable to seek God or trust in Christ?. Some say yes, some say no.

Psalms 14:2-3; John 6:44.

3) Did Christ die only for the previously chosen elect or did Christ die as a ransom for all? Some say for the elect only, many say for all humanity.

John 10:11. 'The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.' John 10. 'But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.'

4) Can a born anew believer lose his or her salvation? Some say yes, many say no.

John 10:27-28. 'My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.' BUT, if someone is not hearing and obeying the Shepherd's voice and following Him, why would they suppose that they were of His sheep? Matthew 7:21-23; 1 John 2:19 and Matthew 24:13 apply.

5) Were we chosen for salvation through faith, or without regard for our faith? Some say yes, some say no.

It does appear that no one who does not believe in Christ will be saved. God may have a special arrangement for infants an imbeciles, but He has not told us about it. But we were chosen in eternity (Ephesians 1:3-5 etc.) quite apart from our faith, deeds or anything else save God's good pleasure (Isaiah 12:1; Matthew 11:25-26; Romans 5:6).

6) Are all babies and toddlers saved because they died before the age of accountability? Many say yes, some say no.

See 5. above. All humans are sinners regardless of age, and if infants are saved it is by the grace of God. I think we should simply lay them in the hands of God, saying, 'Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?' (Genesis 18:25). He will do right, but not necessarily what we think is right.

 

[Van]

1) When someone is born anew, they become children of God, members of God's family.

2) Yes, "apostolic succession" is a questionable doctrine.

3) Yes, the belief that water baptism, no matter when, contributes to a person's salvation is questionable

4) Yes, the OP point 4 addresses loss of salvation

5) Yes, the size of Noah's flood is debated, and the whole exercise seems pointless.

6) Yes, the whole Old Earth verses Young Earth debate ignores Job 38 which says we do not know specifically how God created creation.

7) Yes, KJV onlyism is a questionable doctrine.

8) Yes, the point of this thread is to consider the many doctrines that divide us, and the reasons. Ignorance of conflicting scripture, pride, desire to help God by fixing scripture, and provincialism, indoctrination over education.

Some deny that when a person is born anew, they become children of God and thus children of the promises of the Old Covenant. Basically a denial of Galatians chapter 3.

Of course, whenever baptism seems necessary for salvation, the baptism in view is our spiritual baptism into Christ.

When a person is spiritually born anew, the process is irreversible, thus once saved, always saved.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Some deny that when a person is born anew, they become children of God and thus children of the promises of the Old Covenant.

Which old covenant? Probably where debate comes in, bro.

Paul carefully says Jesus is the promised offspring of Abraham (not the Jewish people), the promised Messiah. So are we today in a NEW covenant getting xyz "promises" of the OLD? My use of old covenant is mosaic Law, not Abraham's messianic line. Would be a good topic for discussion (not intended for this generic thread)

 

[Van]

Which old covenant? Probably where debate comes in, bro.

Paul carefully says Jesus is the promised offspring of Abraham (not the Jewish people), the promised Messiah. So are we today in a NEW covenant getting xyz "promises" of the OLD? My use of old covenant is mosaic Law, not Abraham's messianic line. Would be a good topic for discussion (not intended for this generic thread)

I was referring to the promises made by God in the Old Testament to Abraham and his seed.

I did not see a direct answer as to whether your view is that every born anew Christian becomes a child of the promise to Abraham.
Gal 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Gen 17:7
“I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Would be a good topic for discussion (not intended for this generic thread)

I'll take that as a challenge. I've been preaching on the covenants so it will be an excuse to bring my studies to a wider audience