Questioning Assemblies of God

[Annmaha]

Hello,
So glad to find this place. It was a long and very interesting road to here. Saved in 1999 at a Vineyard church, member of an Assemblies of God church for the past nine years, theology nerd. Three years ago I began to research Bible translations to decide if I wanted the ESV (my husband jokes that the only thing I have more of than Bible translations is purses).
My research led me to the Puritan Board, which led me into a deep study of Calvinism. I spent almost two years there, reading Edwards and Calvin, Piper and Moehler, coming out of it thinking I was a Calvinist. Had some hard talks with my AoG pastor and friends, husband and I began visiting other churches to see if Calvinism was really where God was leading us.
Through THAT search, we visited some Baptist churches in our area and attended some services...which led me to THIS board and listening to Leighton Flower's podcasts just to "see what the other side was saying." Which led me to deep prayer and seeking His face...and away from Calvinism as a false doctrine (I am NOT saying Calvinists are not Christians, just that their idea of limited atonement does not seem Biblical or like God's character).
All this led me to not know exactly where I place myself. Am I only Arminian? Am I a Traditionalist? A Baptist (I find I agree with a lot of Baptist theology, preaching and church styles, teachers and books)?
Do I stay at my AoG church even though I find some of their practices..uncomfortable. Unbiblical? Not sure. Anti-Christ? No. But uncomfortable (tongues, people having 'a word from God' for you, emotion laden worship that can go very long, etc.).
However, having been at that church for nine years, they are family, they've been there through the adoption of our two children, a near financial disaster, and counseling my husband and I away from divorce and helping us restore our marriage. The people are amazing there and adore my children. My children are rooted in His word there and have a good understanding of His love, grace and the cross. I teach Sunday School there, am the church photographer, and am active in women's and children's ministry.
So, it's not a simple or easy thing to just decide to move to a Baptist church.

So, if you got THIS far...wow, thank you!

All that just to introduce a simple wife and mom and teacher (career) from New Jersey who loves God, seeks Him daily, leans on Him for it all and wishes she could go back to school for theology so she could be a theology nerd full time.

Annie

 

[TCassidy]

Welcome to the "All Christians" section of the Baptist Board. We hope you will soon qualify to post in the "Baptist Only" sections of the BB.

I am NOT saying Calvinists are not Christians, just that their idea of limited atonement does not seem Biblical or like God's character

Do you, then, accept the Atonement to be unlimited? If so, do you believe all persons, even the Devil and his demons, will be saved eventually?

If not, and you exclude the Devil and his demons, don't you also limit the Atonement to humans only?

And, if you believe in an unlimited Atonement, do you believe everybody will eventually be saved, even unbelievers - those who hate God?

If not, don't you also limit the Atonement? Limit it to believers only?

I believe wholeheartedly in Limited Atonement. Christ's Atonement was sufficient for all but efficient only for believers. I usually call this "Efficacious Atonement" to avoid the misunderstanding. He actually saved me on the cross, with a complete Atonement, not a partial, or incomplete atonement.

But uncomfortable (tongues, people having 'a word from God' for you, emotion laden worship that can go very long, etc.).

You are moving in the right direction. False teaching should make you uncomfortable. In fact, it should make you so uncomfortable you flee from it. A false teacher will not consent to sound doctrine (1 Timothy 6:3-5), and believers are commanded to flee from them and their teaching (John 10:5).

My children are rooted in His word there and have a good understanding of His love, grace and the cross.

But they are also being taught false doctrine. They are being taught to reject the Lord who bought them, and to believe that their salvation is not by grace alone, but, at least to some extent, the result of their own works. As a friend of mine, who is a Pentecostal Pastor, said, "You've gotta do something!" I then asked him what Jesus forgot to do that He needed your help to save you." He got mad, stomped away, and hasn't spoken to me since (that was over 20 years ago).

The AoG's Soteriology is wrong (synergistic - God needs my help to save me, verses monergistic - God is All Powerful and He doesn't need my help).

The AoG's Pneumatology is wrong (the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit).

The AoG's Bibliology is wrong (believing God is still speaking His word in the form of "word of faith" or "word of knowledge" or in "tongues" - rather than accepting that God has closed the canon of Scripture and the bible is complete and sufficient for all our faith and practice).

The AoG's Experientialism (a strong emphasis on feeling and emotionalism versus the use of the mind and intellect. Intuitive guidance from the "hidden man of the heart" versus Bible study).

My advice is get out now, before your children are dragged into error, heresy, and apostasy.

Here is a good study of the bible dealing with the nature of the Atonement.

 

[utilyan]

Hello,
So glad to find this place. It was a long and very interesting road to here. Saved in 1999 at a Vineyard church, member of an Assemblies of God church for the past nine years, theology nerd. Three years ago I began to research Bible translations to decide if I wanted the ESV (my husband jokes that the only thing I have more of than Bible translations is purses).
My research led me to the Puritan Board, which led me into a deep study of Calvinism. I spent almost two years there, reading Edwards and Calvin, Piper and Moehler, coming out of it thinking I was a Calvinist. Had some hard talks with my AoG pastor and friends, husband and I began visiting other churches to see if Calvinism was really where God was leading us.
Through THAT search, we visited some Baptist churches in our area and attended some services...which led me to THIS board and listening to Leighton Flower's podcasts just to "see what the other side was saying." Which led me to deep prayer and seeking His face...and away from Calvinism as a false doctrine (I am NOT saying Calvinists are not Christians, just that their idea of limited atonement does not seem Biblical or like God's character).
All this led me to not know exactly where I place myself. Am I only Arminian? Am I a Traditionalist? A Baptist (I find I agree with a lot of Baptist theology, preaching and church styles, teachers and books)?
Do I stay at my AoG church even though I find some of their practices..uncomfortable. Unbiblical? Not sure. Anti-Christ? No. But uncomfortable (tongues, people having 'a word from God' for you, emotion laden worship that can go very long, etc.).
However, having been at that church for nine years, they are family, they've been there through the adoption of our two children, a near financial disaster, and counseling my husband and I away from divorce and helping us restore our marriage. The people are amazing there and adore my children. My children are rooted in His word there and have a good understanding of His love, grace and the cross. I teach Sunday School there, am the church photographer, and am active in women's and children's ministry.
So, it's not a simple or easy thing to just decide to move to a Baptist church.

So, if you got THIS far...wow, thank you!

All that just to introduce a simple wife and mom and teacher (career) from New Jersey who loves God, seeks Him daily, leans on Him for it all and wishes she could go back to school for theology so she could be a theology nerd full time.

Annie

I don't agree with Calvinist position. Ultimately lays blame on God for not providing to you, rather then you had everything and sinned.

HOWEVER, any protestant/reformed person who is consistent in what they say they believe ought to be a Calvinist.

The atonement issued. You would say the only people capable of doing good in God's eyes are the folks he chose to give the power to be good. This choice obviously known and predestined. So only the elect have been atoned by Jesus Christ and God knew that what Jesus did would only be of help for them.



Far as which church to go to......... Go to the absolutely worst church you can find. Then you actually have to trust God with your trip and finally put the "faith alone" to work.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't agree with Calvinist position. Ultimately lays blame on God for not providing to you, rather then you had everything and sinned.

HOWEVER, any protestant/reformed person who is consistent in what they say they believe ought to be a Calvinist.

The atonement issued. You would say the only people capable of doing good in God's eyes are the folks he chose to give the power to be good. This choice obviously known and predestined. So only the elect have been atoned by Jesus Christ and God knew that what Jesus did would only be of help for them.



Far as which church to go to......... Go to the absolutely worst church you can find. Then you actually have to trust God with your trip and finally put the "faith alone" to work.

Calvinist would NEVER blame God, as we are so thankful thatHhe provided grace to save us, as NONE deserve anything but Hell!

 

[Yeshua1]

I was raised up at saved in AOG, became taching Elder, bu denied Baptism in HS as tey define it, left, became a Baptist, then moved into Calvinism, as that is the teaching of the scriptures in regards to salvation...

Maybe join a Freewill Baptist curch, if no longer AOG and not into Calvinism?

 

[utilyan]

Calvinist would NEVER blame God, as we are so thankful thatHhe provided grace to save us, as NONE deserve anything but Hell!

Even your auto-judgment blames God. Your still saying its GOD's fault you deserve hell.

Your accusation is still a PENALTY itself. In other words your not respecting God's imputation of sin and righteousness as actual only cosmetic.

You only accept God's "innocent" name tag rather then actual innocence imputed.


The judge slammed the gavel and said "INNOCENT" and you think well he's only called innocent not really made innocent at all. So you stick them with your personal penalty , your personal sentence in the accusation "they deserve hell".



God does not give LIP SERVICE concerning you.

2 Corinthians 5

19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

This is notch greater then innocent, he's saying the trespasses are not even being counted, that is the charges have been dropped.

But if your thinking well I deserve hell, well then your stating YOUR JUDGMENT trumps GOD's.

My advice? Let God do the judging.

 

[Yeshua1]

Even your auto-judgment blames God. Your still saying its GOD's fault you deserve hell.

Your accusation is still a PENALTY itself. In other words your not respecting God's imputation of sin and righteousness as actual only cosmetic.

You only accept God's "innocent" name tag rather then actual innocence imputed.


The judge slammed the gavel and said "INNOCENT" and you think well he's only called innocent not really made innocent at all. So you stick them with your personal penalty , your personal sentence in the accusation "they deserve hell".

So you do deny that ALL have fallen short of glory of God, and so reap condemnation on ourselves, and that is due to us not God?

 

[utilyan]

So you do deny that ALL have fallen short of glory of God, and so reap condemnation on ourselves, and that is due to us not God?

Yeshua,
When I look at you I see Christ, you are innocent. Its like your clothed with Christ and want to rip it off.

You are reaping a condemnation on yourself NOW, its not God's condemnation, its your own.


Suppose I believe you deserve to go to hell. Ok I got my "bill" here says yeshua deserves to go to hell. I'm walking over to your house, Knock on the door. JESUS CHRIST ANSWERS. I'll take that thank you.

Innocent is Innocent, You are innocent. You do not DESERVE HELL. And all your accusations have been dropped.


Jesus Christ took away the sins, the only problem you have is its literally UNBELIEVABLE to you.

 

[utilyan]

Here is a more biblical example, Its not my place to judge you or to penalize you even with "what you deserve".

Romans 10

6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”