Questioning the salvation of others on the BB

[righteousdude2]

No Matter How It's Done, It MUST Stop...

...I've witnessed outright accusations, and subtle/covert [badgering] comment that suggests one is not a believer, because they don't believe the way, another believes.

Whether it is outright or covert badgering, it is wrong, and it must stop.

There are those on this board who take certain pride in putting down others accomplishements in life. This is as negative and as wrong as the questioning of ones salvation. THIS TOO MUST STOP.

There is a huge gap between what some call honest debate, and pure malicious goading. The guilty parties know who they are, and the mods should take action against those who purposely try to pick a fight with another member. I know that I have fallen into the snare of these folks, from time to time, and it is frustrating to say the least, especially when I'm the one left holding the bag.

 

[saturneptune]

A big part of the problems of extreme interaction of the BB is not being able to actually see the person and assume a certain reception/reaction to what we post.

Is it EVER right to question the salvation of another?

I am not certain there is a Scriptural permission for such to take place.

Perhaps someone might suggest a text and context where such judgment is within the scope of the believer to make.

We never know 100% for sure the state of another person's eternal destiny. Most certainly we cannot know without the ability to see someone face to face. Even knowing someone, the best we can do is be fairly sure one way or the other. We have to remember, even though saved, we are still flawed creatures. Even being fairly certain would require knowing a person in his day to day life, and over an extended period of time.

Sometimes sin is so blatant that we put a person fairly quickly into a lost catagory. If we just read the account of David and Bathsheba, we might think he was lost. If we just read select passages about Peter and Judas, we might come to the conclusion their eternal destiny was the same.

Do you ever wonder about the salvation of those not necessarily in blatant sin, but have not darkened the door of a church for decades, or even better yet, never got off the pew to serve the Lord, or never told anyone about Jesus in their lives. It is not so black and white from our perspective.

The best we can do is the Holy Spirit in us. Sometimes the reaction from Him through us towards others makes it pretty clear.

 

[convicted1]

We never know 100% for sure the state of another person's eternal destiny. Most certainly we cannot know without the ability to see someone face to face. Even knowing someone, the best we can do is be fairly sure one way or the other. We have to remember, even though saved, we are still flawed creatures. Even being fairly certain would require knowing a person in his day to day life, and over an extended period of time.

Sometimes sin is so blatant that we put a person fairly quickly into a lost catagory. If we just read the account of David and Bathsheba, we might think he was lost. If we just read select passages about Peter and Judas, we might come to the conclusion their eternal destiny was the same.

Do you ever wonder about the salvation of those not necessarily in blatant sin, but have not darkened the door of a church for decades, or even better yet, never got off the pew to serve the Lord, or never told anyone about Jesus in their lives. It is not so black and white from our perspective.

The best we can do is the Holy Spirit in us. Sometimes the reaction from Him through us towards others makes it pretty clear.

We all need to judge the one who looks back at us in the mirror, and leave the others alone. There isn't any of us who has been given the authority to judge someone else. We need to examine/judge ourselves, and let the others be.

 

[saturneptune]

We all need to judge the one who looks back at us in the mirror, and leave the others alone. There isn't any of us who has been given the authority to judge someone else. We need to examine/judge ourselves, and let the others be.

I pretty much agree with that. I do think that there are instances where the Spirit in us testifies that we should not be associating with a certain person or situation, such as the examples Paul gives us about people who abuse the Lord's Supper, and other sin examples. Also, if we are in tune with the Lord, I do believe He lets us know who needs the be told the Gospel. The miracle is the timing of the Lord putting you in the right place at the right time.

In the context of judging others for the purpose of saying "I am holier than thou" you are right, we have enough to worrying about in ourselves.

 

[saturneptune]

...I've witnessed outright accusations, and subtle/covert [badgering] comment that suggests one is not a believer, because they don't believe the way, another believes.

Whether it is outright or covert badgering, it is wrong, and it must stop.

There are those on this board who take certain pride in putting down others accomplishements in life. This is as negative and as wrong as the questioning of ones salvation. THIS TOO MUST STOP.

There is a huge gap between what some call honest debate, and pure malicious goading. The guilty parties know who they are, and the mods should take action against those who purposely try to pick a fight with another member. I know that I have fallen into the snare of these folks, from time to time, and it is frustrating to say the least, especially when I'm the one left holding the bag.

You are a good example of someone, when I have read your posts, of a saved, caring, sincere person. No doubt this comes from the Spirit in me. At the same time, the crowd you are talking about in a negative manner, angers me very much, too much for my own good. I have seen the same type put you through the ringer in the same fashion as the recent series of threads we have been talking about.

I really appreciate your perspective of this and the Gospel in general.

 

[Arbo]

A big part of the problems of extreme interaction of the BB is not being able to actually see the person and assume a certain reception/reaction to what we post.

Is it EVER right to question the salvation of another?

I am not certain there is a Scriptural permission for such to take place.

Perhaps someone might suggest a text and context where such judgment is within the scope of the believer to make.

The inquisitor needs no Scripture. :BangHead:

 

[Arbo]

You are a good example of someone, when I have read your posts, of a saved, caring, sincere person. No doubt this comes from the Spirit in me. At the same time, the crowd you are talking about in a negative manner, angers me very much, too much for my own good. I have seen the same type put you through the ringer in the same fashion as the recent series of threads we have been talking about.

I really appreciate your perspective of this and the Gospel in general.

RD- Same here. :thumbsup:

 

[Tom Butler]

This is interesting. Matthew 7 says

v1. Judge not
v20. By their fruits you shall know them.

Sure, I suppose we can't really know one's heart regarding their salvation, but we can inspect fruit.

In I Corinthians 6, Paul rebukes the church folks for not judging. He asked" Don't you know that we will judge angels?"

Now, the context is Christians' going to secular courts instead of handling disputes themselves. But the premise is still valid.

It'll be helpful to exegete those passages which seem to conflict, and put them in perspective.

I agree that we shouldn't question one's salvation here on the Baptist Board. But in some cases we can certainly wonder? Just not aloud.

 

[12strings]

There are certainly places in the Bible where we are encouraged to make judgements, know people by their fruits, treat someone as an unbeleiver if they are acting like one...

BUT... we all agreed when signing up for the BB that we would abide by the rules. The rules state that we are not to question another poster's salvation in these threads.

No matter how sure we are, or how strongly we feel that it must be done, Doing so would be a breach of our own word that we would not do so.

 

[mandym]

BUT... we all agreed when signing up for the BB that we would abide by the rules. The rules state that we are not to question another poster's salvation in these threads.

The powers that be do not really care about that. They allow whole threads to be started doing it.

 

[Tom Butler]

There are certainly places in the Bible where we are encouraged to make judgements, know people by their fruits, treat someone as an unbeleiver if they are acting like one...

BUT... we all agreed when signing up for the BB that we would abide by the rules. The rules state that we are not to question another poster's salvation in these threads.

No matter how sure we are, or how strongly we feel that it must be done, Doing so would be a breach of our own word that we would not do so.

Oh, I agree completely. It makes me quite uncomfortable when anyone even hints at this during our discussions.

 

[mont974x4]

How then do you determine false teachers? Which is a biblical mandate.

 

[mandym]

How then do you determine false teachers? Which is a biblical mandate.

Is this a question because you do not know?

 

[matt wade]

BUT... we all agreed when signing up for the BB that we would abide by the rules. The rules state that we are not to question another poster's salvation in these threads.

Where is the rule that states this?

 

[agedman]

How then do you determine false teachers? Which is a biblical mandate.

False teachers teach false.

That doesn't mean that they may not be saved, it means they are in doctrinal error or teach a false principle.

Do not neglect the part of the verse that states: "...denying the Lord that bought them..." which isn't an indication they were not saved; the false teacher was mixing salvation with some man originated work to gain salvation - like freedom of choice, or human generated ability of a person's own volition be saved.

 

[mont974x4]

Is this a question because you do not know?

No. It is a question to get people who advocate not challenging others on what they believe to consider the broader issues at hand.

If we cannot do this then there is no evangelism. This forces us to ignore the Great Commission and the examples in Scripture of preaching and teaching and prophesying. It also means we have to ignore the passages of Jesus, Paul and others confronting people on false teaching and false beliefs. You can toss out 2 John then.

 

[mandym]

Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

 

[agedman]

Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

There is a difference between a false prophet who is not saved and a false teacher who is saved but has doctrinal errors.

Your post clearly shows the false prophet's lack of salvation.

2 Peter 2:1 also shows the distinction between the two.

 

[Tom Butler]

Where is the rule that states this?

Well, I looked at where I thought the rule would be, but I can't find it either.

Let me suggest you PM a moderator with that question, and post the answer for all of us.

 

[Don]

No. It is a question to get people who advocate not challenging others on what they believe to consider the broader issues at hand.

If we cannot do this then there is no evangelism. This forces us to ignore the Great Commission and the examples in Scripture of preaching and teaching and prophesying. It also means we have to ignore the passages of Jesus, Paul and others confronting people on false teaching and false beliefs. You can toss out 2 John then.

I think there's a difference between challenging each other's beliefs, and what we see sometimes happen (i.e., person A challenges person B; person B defends their position; person A then presents why they think person B is wrong; person B disagrees; person A then states that since person B doesn't agree with them, they must be using a false gospel).

Seems to me we don't have to escalate to that last portion. If the two parties disagree, and can't come to consensus, then isn't there something in scripture that says "shake off the dust"? Not sure there's a need for a "parting shot," but maybe someone can show scripture that says we're supposed to be petty and mean-spirited if someone doesn't agree to what we individually think scripture is saying.