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Questions about divorce
- Thread starter KimS
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Jailminister
New Member
God divorced Israel.
I don't agree with that statement.
Here is what Matthew Henry said about that:
I. A challenge given them to prove, or produce any evidence, that the quarrel began on God’s side, v. 1. They could not say that he had done them any wrong or had acted arbitrarily. 1. He had been a husband to them; and husbands were then allowed a power to put away their wives upon any little disgust: if their wives found not favour in their eyes, they made nothing of giving them a bill of divorce, Deu. 24:1; Mt. 19:7. But they could not say that God had dealt so with them. It is true they were now separated from him, and had abode many days without ephod, altar, or sacrifice; but whose fault was that? They could not say that God had given their mother a bill of divorce; let them produce it if they can, for a bill of divorce was given into the hand of her that was divorced. 2. He had been a father to them; and fathers had then a power to sell their children for slaves to their creditors, in satisfaction for the debts they were not otherwise able to pay. Now it is true the Jews were sold to the Babylonians then, and afterwards to the Romans; but did God sell them for payment of his debts? No, he was not indebted to any of those to whom they were sold, or, if he had sold them, he did not increase his wealth by their price, Ps. 44:12. When God chastens his children, it is neither for his pleasure (Heb. 12:10) nor for his profit. All that are saved are saved by a prerogative of grace, but those that perish are cut off by an act of divine holiness and justice, not of absolute sovereignty.
I don't agree with that statement.
Here is what Matthew Henry said about that:
I. A challenge given them to prove, or produce any evidence, that the quarrel began on God’s side, v. 1. They could not say that he had done them any wrong or had acted arbitrarily. 1. He had been a husband to them; and husbands were then allowed a power to put away their wives upon any little disgust: if their wives found not favour in their eyes, they made nothing of giving them a bill of divorce, Deu. 24:1; Mt. 19:7. But they could not say that God had dealt so with them. It is true they were now separated from him, and had abode many days without ephod, altar, or sacrifice; but whose fault was that? They could not say that God had given their mother a bill of divorce; let them produce it if they can, for a bill of divorce was given into the hand of her that was divorced. 2. He had been a father to them; and fathers had then a power to sell their children for slaves to their creditors, in satisfaction for the debts they were not otherwise able to pay. Now it is true the Jews were sold to the Babylonians then, and afterwards to the Romans; but did God sell them for payment of his debts? No, he was not indebted to any of those to whom they were sold, or, if he had sold them, he did not increase his wealth by their price, Ps. 44:12. When God chastens his children, it is neither for his pleasure (Heb. 12:10) nor for his profit. All that are saved are saved by a prerogative of grace, but those that perish are cut off by an act of divine holiness and justice, not of absolute sovereignty.
Is this equivalent to the idea of divorce under discussion here?
Will God not regather Israel and thereby exhibit reconciliation?
This is not a divorce as is recognized in this discussion.
Jailminister, I was aware of the distinction made in 1 Cor. 6.9.
Thanks for your discussion, you have helped me understand this a great deal more than I once did.
Bro. Dallas
Will God not regather Israel and thereby exhibit reconciliation?
This is not a divorce as is recognized in this discussion.
Jailminister, I was aware of the distinction made in 1 Cor. 6.9.
Thanks for your discussion, you have helped me understand this a great deal more than I once did.
Bro. Dallas
Jailminister
New Member
God Bless Bro. Dallas. Take care
North Carolina Tentmaker
New Member
Look, I have never pretended to be a Bible genius, but Matthew 5:32 does not permit divorce because of adultery, whether it was before or after the marriage is irrelevant. Here is the verse:
Helen: Thank you so much for sharing your story. I would have to say your case is a perfect example of I Cor 7:15. You are free from that first marriage and if you are free that has to mean free to remarry.
What I see here is that if you divorce because of adultery you do not cause your spouse to commit adultery, they have already done it so its not your fault. But that does not mean that divorce is allowed or preferred.
Helen: Thank you so much for sharing your story. I would have to say your case is a perfect example of I Cor 7:15. You are free from that first marriage and if you are free that has to mean free to remarry.
Daniel David
New Member
How utterly hilarious is this?
God used metaphorical language to describe the way he set Israel aside. That is the strength of your argument? Keep working out.
The Scriptures also say that God was married to Israel and her sister, Judah. Do you advocate bigomy Sheeagle? Come on now, think.
What I see here is that if you divorce because of adultery you do not cause your spouse to commit adultery, they have already done it so its not your fault. But that does not mean that divorce is allowed or preferred.
Helen: Thank you so much for sharing your story. I would have to say your case is a perfect example of I Cor 7:15. You are free from that first marriage and if you are free that has to mean free to remarry. </font>[/QUOTE]I am probably misinterpreting your post, but it seems to me to be contradictory.
Adultery is only committed outside the marriage institute when a married person engages in sexual immorality.
Fornication occurs prior to the actual marriage. This is the only 'reason' given by the Lord for adultery. But the Lord also states in Matt. 19.8 & 9 that from the beginning this was not so.
But where I have misread your post I am sorry and please correct me if that is the case.
Bro. Dallas
North Carolina Tentmaker
New Member
No you are probably reading my message right, it is contradictory. There are two separate issues here. The first is in Matthew 5 where Jesus is teaching on divorce. Jesus does not give blanket permission to divorce on the grounds of adultery or fornication. He gives us a higher standard than the law and says divorce is never God's plan. This ties together with Jesus teaching in Matthew 19: 7-12 and Mark 10:1-12. Verse 9 of course gives us the closing of most wedding services when Jesus said,
Anyway, that is my opinion.
God is never in favor of divorce. Now, that being said, divorce does happen. God recognizes that and makes provisions for believers who get caught up in it. That is exactly what Paul is addressing in I Corinthians 7. Check out verses 27 and 28 of I Cor 7. They say,
God allows for divorce. If it is your fault He will forgive you. If it was not he will free you from the bond of that first marriage. Either way there comes a point when you move on with your life and remarriage is allowed.
Anyway, that is my opinion.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
N. Carolina Tentmaker said: Jesus does not give blanket permission to divorce on the grounds of adultery or fornication. He gives us a higher standard than the law and says divorce is never God's plan.
Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Amen,
Diane
Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Amen,
Diane
Daniel David
New Member
Christ said that people divorced because they had a hard heart. What Christian has the right to have a hard heart?
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Just to clarify.... I was using this verse in reference to a spouse who asks for forgiveness for adultery.
Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Diane
Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Diane
Daniel David
New Member
I must add that it is such a great testimony about the forgiveness Christ has given us that we go and divorce our spouse or some other hard-hearted action.
Probably be received 'hands-down' by the evangelical mainstream, just think of the millions of non-believers who will see your testimony and be drawn to Christ. This will of course provide an opportunity for you to discuss the scripture with them...not that the scripture will be of any special importance to them, they will probably be more interested in the gory details of your divorce...oh what a feeling
Bro. Dallas
Well, if my ex wife divorced me because she decided another man was better between the sheets than I, then it is not I who has a hard heart. Further, if I did not divorce her, and allowed her to live in fornication while being married to me, I would be giving her permission to sin, thus making me an accessory to sin. Hence, divorce in this case is an appropriate moral action.
Now, as far as me getting married again, Paul says very plainly that if a man burn with desire, it is better to marry. I've been single for several years now, and have adhered to Paul's example of Christian singlehood. However, I'm ready, and desirous to share my heart with another. God says plainly that it is not good for man to be alone. He does not make an exception for divorced persons, to be specific, persons like myself, who are the innocent parties of divorce, not the instigators.
The phrase 'husband of one wife' was possibly a slang phrase which meant a pastor or deacon had to be a one woman type of man, not a flirt or a ladies man. This context is one in which the character of the bishop (pastor) is being discussed. As simple as that sounds, it has been the subject of numerous interpretations. Some have interpreted the phrase to mean that a candidate for overseer must never have been divorced in his life, including in his unsaved years. Jesus permitted, but did not promote, divorce in Matthew 19:9. So what does 'husband of one wife' mean? Taken in its most basic sense, it means that an overseer, if married, must be married to only one woman (which excludes bigamy, polygamy, and homosexuality) and must be devoted to his wife (which excludes promiscuity and an unhealthy marriage)."
Spiros Zodhiates says, "The expression mias gunaikos is known in Greek grammar as, 'a one-woman's husband," not a 'ladies' man, in other words. The total context speaks of the moral conduct of the bishop and the deacon. He should be totally dedicated to his wife and not be flirtatious." (HEBREW-GREEK KEY STUDY BIBLE in the footnotes on page 1497 under 1 Timothy 3:2).
A person biblically divorced should be able to be a deacon or pastor. If an unbelieving spouse leaves, then you are no longer bound to that marriage and free to remarry. Divorce was just for that, to free one to remarry. A professing believer that will leave his or her spouse, is simply not a believer. A person who beats his or her spouse is not a believer. I could go on and on.
Spiros Zodhiates says, "The expression mias gunaikos is known in Greek grammar as, 'a one-woman's husband," not a 'ladies' man, in other words. The total context speaks of the moral conduct of the bishop and the deacon. He should be totally dedicated to his wife and not be flirtatious." (HEBREW-GREEK KEY STUDY BIBLE in the footnotes on page 1497 under 1 Timothy 3:2).
A person biblically divorced should be able to be a deacon or pastor. If an unbelieving spouse leaves, then you are no longer bound to that marriage and free to remarry. Divorce was just for that, to free one to remarry. A professing believer that will leave his or her spouse, is simply not a believer. A person who beats his or her spouse is not a believer. I could go on and on.
1. Who instituted the divorce doesn't matter. It still doesn't free the other party.
2. Try a serious argument and not one that is clearly a rationalization of sin.
3. Perhaps a definition of moral is in order.
4. If you fit the qualifications to be married. You don't. You can't wrench that verse out to mean whatever you want.
5. Then continue to adhere to the command. It isn't temporary.
6. That would be adultery.
7. That is why you take a wife. You have taken two. How many do you need before you are no longer alone?
8. No such thing as an innocent party. I realize your position must invent such a concept, but truth does not agree.
Well, if my ex wife divorced me because she decided another man was better between the sheets than I, then it is not I who has a hard heart. Further, if I did not divorce her, and allowed her to live in fornication while being married to me, I would be giving her permission to sin, thus making me an accessory to sin. Hence, divorce in this case is an appropriate moral action.
Now, as far as me getting married again, Paul says very plainly that if a man burn with desire, it is better to marry. I've been single for several years now, and have adhered to Paul's example of Christian singlehood. However, I'm ready, and desirous to share my heart with another. God says plainly that it is not good for man to be alone. He does not make an exception for divorced persons, to be specific, persons like myself, who are the innocent parties of divorce, not the instigators. </font>[/QUOTE]That being the case, then by all means marry again, and may God bless you and give you peace in this matter.
Matt.19:9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."
1 Cor. 7:15 " But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace."
Just letting the bible simply say what it says, there are exceptions. One being sexual immorality, the other being desertion.
What has happened is that some folks have interpreted scripture into making divorce the unforgivable sin, thus making anyone who has had the misfortune of having been through this terrible ordeal, of no use to God for any work, and of no use to the church other than possibly filling a pew and paying a tythe.
That being said, this is a hard and most often bitter and hurtfull debate, as most folks have their minds already made up concerning their interpretation of scripture on this matter.
Those of you on this board who have been through a divorce; God bless you and give you peace.
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins,He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Take heart my friend God still has plans for you.
No divorce, no remarriage. I'm with DD on this one.
It is tough, especially if you've still got a lot of hormones raging which seems to be JohnV's case, no disrespect intended, my friend, or if you're a woman (as in Helen's case) and needed a man around to lean on and all, but I do believe God frowns on divorce and remarriage.
It is tough, but, that's why we have the privilege, as children of God, to run to the Father in tough situations.
It is tough, especially if you've still got a lot of hormones raging which seems to be JohnV's case, no disrespect intended, my friend, or if you're a woman (as in Helen's case) and needed a man around to lean on and all, but I do believe God frowns on divorce and remarriage.
It is tough, but, that's why we have the privilege, as children of God, to run to the Father in tough situations.