Questions about Repentance

[DeeJay]

It seems there are different thoughts about what repentance is.

One school of thought seems to believe that you must say sorry in prayer for each sin to repent and be forgiven of that sin. This seems to be unlikely as we can not even know all the times we sin. Also it leaves our salvation up to us asking for forgiveness. It seems like a work.

Another school of thought is that repentance is an attitude. You dont have to think of each individual sin and pray asking for forgiveness. That forgiveness is given based on a persons general dislike of sin. Or only people who have changed their mind to think sin is wrong are forgiven.

I looked up repentence and it is from the word Metanoia.

Noia means mind

Meta has several definitions

Meta = later
Meta = Change; transformation, Alternation
Meta = Beyond; transcending; more comprehensive
Having undergone metamorphosis


I expected definition 2 change, transformation so repentence would be a change of mind. Going from thinking sin was ok to thinking sin is bad.

But definition three seems to be the same as being born again being transformed, having undergone metamorphosis.

Could repentence be the same thing as being born again. Where we do not do it but God changes our mind about sin for us. The bible says you must be born again, it also says you must repent are they the same process of becoming a new creature.

I am interested in hearing thoughts about this. Sorry if I dont make sense.

 

[partialrapture]

REPENT', v.i. [L. re and paeniteo, from paena, pain. Gr. See Paint.]
1. To feel pain, sorrow or regret for something done or spoken; as, to repent that we have lost much time in idleness or sensual pleasure; to repent that we have injured or wounded the feelings of a friend. A person repents only of what he himself has done or said.
2. To express sorrow for something past.
Enobarbus did before thy face repent.
3. To change the mind in consequence of the inconvenience or injury done by past conduct.
Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return. Ex. 13.
4. Applied to the Supreme Being, to change the course of providential dealings. Gen. 6. Ps. 106.
5. In theology, to sorrow or be pained for sin, as a violation of God's holy law, a dishonor to his character and government, and the foulest ingratitude to a Being of infinite benevolence.
Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13. Acts 3.

Notice the English definition...

I have always taking repentance to be one of two things in the bible, depending onwhere you are reading and in what context its in.

One seems to be just be a feeling of pain or sorrow over something done

1Samuel 15:10 ¶ Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,
11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments.

The other invovles a change

Exodus 13:17 ¶ And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:

May God bless our understanding

 

[partialrapture]

Websters 1828 dictionary

 

[EdSutton]

DeeJay- You have definitely dead center hit the nail with your head! Right on!
partialrapture- With respect, I do not here care about your views of eschatology, nor am I either agreeing nor disagreeing with them. But for both of you, as well as myself, I suggest a better starting point for a definition/understanding of the various Greek words would probably be a Greek lexicon, and for Hebrew, a Hebrew lexicon. And for the record, I know absolutely no Hebrew. I do know a little English, however, and would ask two questions. This concerns the English Bible, of which I am currently using for the last ten years an NKJV, which I bought to replace a wide margin "New Scofield" that I had had for many years (and had paid enough to buy three good new Bibles, just to have rebound and would have taken no amount of money for, as it had my accumulated and unreplacable notes, both good and bad, for over 30 years dating back to Bible college days) which was, I assume, stolen from the seat of my cab by a customer one night. If one is converted, it will be well worth it some day, but I would buy the one a new Bible of any type he or she wanted, just to get it back. But I digress. (I ask these questions often to others, BTW, so neither 'partialrapture' nor 'DeeJay' should feel like privileged charachters.)
(1.) Without looking it up, how many times is the phrase(s) or a variant of 'repent of/from (your) sin(s) found in the Bible? If one does not know 'off the top of one's head I will give you a partial answer. Partial Answer- IIO. At the end of this, I will give the complete answer.
(2.) What is the ONLY thing said in the Bible to lead someone to 'repentance'? Answer, God's goodness.
"Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?" (Rom. 2:4, NKJV)
I said before, I would give a complete answer to the first question. The partial answer is IIO; hte complete answer is ZERO. Think about it! In His grace, Ed
PS: I'm new at this, so if it was too long or too off topic, The moderator can post back to me and I'll try and do better!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

born again and repentence are not the same. If it were, every one who was sorry for committing a crime and would be saved without even calling upon the name of the Lord.

And Ed, Repent of this evil is a variant of Repent of your sins... Exodus 32:12. I am sure there are others

[ January 09, 2006, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: standingfirminChrist ]

 

[standingfirminChrist]

also, is not fornication a sin? last time I checked the Bible it was.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

2 Corinthians 12:21 [And] lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and [that] I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

 

[partialrapture]

amen

 

[Hope of Glory]

The English word “repent”, from the Latin word “repoenitet”, simply means “to be sorry”, and that just does not convey the full meaning of the Greek word. John did not merely want people to be sorry, but to change their attitudes (literally, “after mind”) and he wanted them to change the way they acted. One of the problems is that we do not have a single English word that reproduces the exact meaning of the Greek word.

The Greek does have a word that means to be sorry, which is exactly our English word “repent”, and it is used in the NT in reference to Judas in Matthew 27:3, which says, “Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders”. That’s a different Greek word, “metamelomai”, which simply means “regret”. Judas regretted what he had done, but it was too late to change, wasn’t it? The deed was done.

But, John was a prophet, after many years of prophetic silence, who was bringing a message of “turn around!” That’s why the book of Matthew, which was written to the Jews specifically, emphasizes repentance: They knew better. To the rest of the world, this was something new. They didn’t need to turn back; they had never been on the right track.

Repent! Turn back! John was echoing the same message that the prophets of old had been preaching to Israel. Joel 2:12 tells us, “Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me [return unto me] with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:” Isaiah 55:7: “Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.” Let him return unto the Lord. Ezekiel 33:11 says, “Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye [turn back, turn back] from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?” This is followed a few verses later by Ezekiel 33:15: “If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.” Repent! The Jews needed to turn back to the road of righteousness!

 

[genesis12]

I became aware of my sin / sins when I came under conviction of or by the Holy Spirit. That caused me much grief. As a result I turned away from sin and to God through Jesus Christ, receiving then the gift of the Holy Spirit. To repent is to turn away from sin. It is not something I intellectually determine to do. It follows an intervention into my life by God through the witness of the Holy Spirit. Since that day there have been many times when I have become aware of sin in my life. I turn from it to God. That doesn't mean that I was lost after being saved and then needed to be saved again. It means that I agreed with God that what I was doing or thinking about doing was wrong ~~ so I ran to 1 John 1:9 not to be saved again, but to restore unhindered fellowship with God through Jesus Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. How refreshing!

 

[Linda64]

REPENTANCE

Repentance is a supernatural work of God whereby a responsive sinner, being convicted by the Holy Spirit of his rebellion, turns to God from his sinful ways and trusts Jesus Christ for salvation (2Ti 2:25; Joh 16:8; Ac 11:18; 26:20). Repentance means more than sorrow or regret or despair or grief. It is also more than mere confession or acknowledgement of sin. Pharaoh, Saul, and Judas did all of that but did not exercise Bible repentance (Ex 9:27; 1Sa 15:24; 24:17; 26:21; Mt 27:3-4). Bible repentance means a turning to God and a change of mind toward God that results in a change of life (Mt 3:1-2; Lu 5:32; 13:1-3; 18:13; Ac 2:38; 5:31; 17:30; 20:21; 26:20; 2Pe 3:9). There are two types of repentance: (1) Repentance for unbelievers for salvation (Lu 13:3; Ac 2:38). (2) repentance for believers from daily sin (Re 2:5,16,21-22).

Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible, Repentance: David Cloud

Repentance, like salvation is to the Jew and also to the Greek/Gentile.

 

[genesis12]

Isn't it wonderful that God loves us so much he doesn't wait around for us to turn from sin? On the contrary, He sends the Third Person of the Trinity to woo us! It doesn't get any better than that!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The third person of the Trinity does not always woo us. The Bible tells us He will reprove and convict of sin. But then, He corrects and instructs by pointing us to Christ. The Holy Spirit never testifies of Himself.

 

[EdSutton]

Standingfirm, I have read a few of your other posts, here. We are not as far apart on most as you might think, I do believe. (Or on facial features, either, although I am heavier, and have a little more, but only a little more, hair on top. I do not have a picture I know how to post.) You did not take 'variant' in the exact sense I meant, but my wording is probably to blame. I was trying to make a point for 'Scriptural wording'. The phrase "repent of your sins" never occurs in Scripture, but I hear it repeatedly in 'alter calls'/'invitations'/'gospel presentations'- call it/them what you will. I do not recall hearing "repent of your fornications" or "repent of the evil", for example, ever in one, although I do hear "Make a committment!", "Make Jesus Lord..." (which cannot be done, BTW, 'cause God done beat you to it!) and a few others phrases like 'make a decision' (Find that one, as well!) repeatedly. The Bible uses the word(s) believe, belief, faith, over 250 times in some way re salvation in the NT, and John uses 'believe' 99 times in his gospel, alone. I wonder if there is some significance to the fact that the only book in the Bible said to be written for the specific purpose of 'giving life' uses believe so often, and never uses any of the words translated repent(ance). As one Don Bunge(sp.?) titled a small book I read, "What Happened to Believe?" Good question! I would offer that you are dead center with regard to the last two posts. Equating 'wooing' with 'drawing', both God, the Father; and God, the Son are here connected. (Jo.6:44-45; 12:32) God, the Holy Spirit is in the convicting business.
Linda64 (Gee, you look much younger!) I would offer that that is a nice summation. However it does not address the real meaning of either metanoeo, or metanoia. Therein lies the problem with all this entire thread. The English 'repent' and the Latin roots are tending to overshadow the actual NT wording, with their definitions.
For the rest, I do note that no one has commented on the fact that 'the goodness of God' is the only thing the Bible actually says that brings one to repentance. Ed

 

[DeeJay]

Thanks for the good responces. So maybe I am not up in the night with this. It seems that I agree with Ed, Genisis and Linda. I am not sure Standing understood exatly what I was saying. Thinking about how to word this better.

born again and repentence are not the same. If it were, every one who was sorry for committing a crime and would be saved without even calling upon the name of the Lord.

I am certenly not saying that anyone who repents is born again. All people feel regret for things they have done, this does not make them Christian. I am asking if the opposite it true.

When we call upon the name of the Lord and are saved, born again, are we also repentent.

Once we are saved we become born again, we do not try to, or do not have to do any steps to become born again. We are born again because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Being born again is also called "becoming a new creature", right.

Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
2 Corinthians 5:16-18

For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Romans 6:10-12

I read the above scriptures as expanding of the concepet of being born again. That is that when we are saved we become new creatures that become dead to sin. Obviously we all still sin but I think it speaks to our attitude change toward sin. And an attitude change toward sin seems to be the definition of repentence.

So Born again = new creature in Christ = repentence (attitude change toward sin).

God makes us born again not us so also God must be the one who changes our attitude toward sin (repentence).

Am I still on track? Is there anyone who is in the first catigory of the OP, who believe that you must think of every sin and say sorry and ask forgiveness? This is the idea of repentence that I am moving away from that repentence is something we do to be forgiven.

Thanks for your thoughts, I am trying to refine my ideas. Get things strate in the mind.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

One needs to be repentent before calling on the Lord, IMO.

The Psalmist said 'If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.' One cannot be born again before calling on the Lord. So, they are two different events. Repentence coming first.

 

[DeeJay]

Repentance is a supernatural work of God whereby a responsive sinner, being convicted by the Holy Spirit of his rebellion, turns to God from his sinful ways and trusts Jesus Christ for salvation

Linda I just re read your post. This is exactly what I was thinking. And a good way to explane it, thanks. So this means that a truly saved person is already repentent. And repentence is not just going over the laundry list of daily sins and saying sorry, sorry, sorry.

Before I was a Christian, I was Mormon and was given a list of steps that must be completed to be forgiven for each sin. Six or seven steps that had to be checked off for forgiveness to take place. Catholics must take personal action to be repentent. It seems these ideas of "We must do something to be repentent" are false. Repentence is given by God.

So would you say that being born again and repentent are the same. All people who are born again are repentent but not the other way around?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

DeeJay,

One cannot call on the Lord for salvation until one is truly repentent (sorry and willing to turn from sin unto God)

Look at 1 Thessalonians 1:9...

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

See the turning? 2 Corinthians 6 tells us we cannot serve both Christ and Belial. The repentance comes first, else our cry for forgiveness will not be heard.

 

[DeeJay]

I see what you are saying, it fits into what I had previously thought about repentence.

There have been some very good, convincing, arguments made about "Total Depravity of Man" That we do not seek him until he seeks us. That we do not find him he seeks us and turns us to him.

Does what you are saying go against that or is there something I am not seeing?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Bible tells us no one seeks after God

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

But, because man is totally depraved, does not mean man is totally unable to respond to the Holy Spirit when He reveals to us our sinful nature and sinful state.

Once we see our state, we have the ability to do one of two things, either accept the fact that we are lost and turn in repentance toward Him crying out for forgiveness, or we can reject the Spirit and choose to continue in our sinful nature.

Gideon told the people in Joshua 24:15

'And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.'

There is a choice we have to make contrary to the teaching that we are totally unable to choose; that being 'dead in trespasses and sins' makes us totally unable to respond.

Even back in the garden of Eden, we see God seeking for Adam and calling out for Him. Adam responded. Adam could have chosen to continue to hide, but he did not. The fact remains, he had a choice.

 

[DeeJay]

Ok, I am with you on that. God seeks us, convicts us of our sin. Then we can surender or resist.

I never did buy " Iresistable Grace". Making me not a very good Calvinest I guess.

Linda brings up two types of repentence. Repentence for unbelievers (turning toward Christ) and repentence for believers.

I think I am clear on the first. About the second. This would be for a born again person who is indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

It is the Holy Spirit that convicts believers of sin. It is the conviction of sin that makes us think of it as, not something good.

So it is the Holy Spirit that brings repentence. I guess what I am trying to make sure of is.

1. Repentence is a work of God in us and not a work that we do. Right?

2. Repentence is a general attitude change about sin, going from not caring about sin to hateing sin. Right?

Along with #2 the listing of sin in our mind and saying sorry for each, while maybe a good thing to do, is not what repentence is all about.

I am learning, thanks for your thoughts.