It's all about Jesus Christ's Atonement. The Cross and the Resurrection. So many Christians act like that was just a technicality that had to take place, really didn't need it to be saved and get into heaven.
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It's all about Jesus Christ's Atonement. The Cross and the Resurrection. So many Christians act like that was just a technicality that had to take place, really didn't need it to be saved and get into heaven.
Two different born agains?? I think you see the problem with asserting OT saints were born again brother. Especially when John said the Spirit was not yet given because Jesus Christ was not yet glorified. You know in your heart he wasn't talking about Pentecost, he was talking about the Living Water. he even said so. The "different" relationship was exactly that.
No, I do not "know in my heart" what you are claiming about me.
And you sir cannot read my heart.
I meant what I said, I said what I meant.
The birth from above is known as the circumcision of the heart in the OT.
Ezekiel 44
Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,
7 In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.
8 And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
The sanctuary is the two compartment Holy Place in the tabernacle/temple where the priests offered the blood sacrifice.
the Inner place where the high priest went once a year to offer the blood.
Ezekiel 44
Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,
7 In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.
8 And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
The sanctuary is the two compartment Holy Place in the tabernacle/temple where the priests offered the blood sacrifice.
the Inner place where the high priest went once a year to offer the blood.
How would one ever make the leap to Abraham was born of the Spirit of God by reading this passage of scripture? Because Abraham seen Messiah afar off through the miraculous birth of his son Isaac? This really shows how the rest of this debate will be going.
So how did they know a person had been circumcised in heart before they let them enter in?
I believe you would have an impossible time connecting the two. What can be connected is an attitude of the heart to follow God's ways....
"And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." (Duet 10)
God is telling you to do it...
Thus saith the Lord GOD...
And you will have an impossible task proving that God can be pleased without the Spirit and only the flesh to produce faith...
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
God told them which ones had a circumcised heart? Where does it say that?
Sure would. But now back to what I said in response to you trying to connect circumcised heart with born of God.....maybe you could explain....
I believe you would have an impossible time connecting the two. What can be connected is an attitude of the heart to follow God's ways....
"And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." (Duet 10)
God is telling you to do it...
Now this is in direct contrast to God doing the rebirth. No where in the NT will you see God telling you to regenerate your heart.
Where did i say that?
You did not say it, God did. I posted His Scripture.
Great, I am of the church, not Israel.
That's nice, but it does not support your idea that circumcision of the heart equals born again. You have dodged it twice now....here it is again....
I believe you would have an impossible time connecting the two. What can be connected to circumcision of the heart is an attitude of the heart to follow God's ways....
"And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." (Duet 10)
God is telling you (them if you like) to do it...
Now this is in direct contrast to God doing the rebirth alone. No where in the NT will you see God telling anyone to regenerate their heart. But He does tell them in the OT to circumcise their own heart. Obviously two different things.
If they have ALREADY been born from above they will be able to obey God's requirement of Deuteronomy 10, if not they won't and show themselves for what they are.
Kind of like the New Covenant test to see who's who in the Kingdom.
John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
If one has been born again that one follows Jesus, if not, they run off after the garbage truck.
With all due respect, that sounds really silly. So their heart is already circumcised by God, but God commands them to circumcise their heart??
True, so when does Jesus tell the regenerated to regenerate themselves?
Correct except just like NC believers the second part after the birth from above is sanctification.
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
He doesn't, like I said sanctification has its reward.
no one regenerates themselves in either the Old or New Covenant. After the regeneration comes obedience in following.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
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