Questions for KJVOs

[charlie parker]

Tonja wrote>>>I am in complete shock that so many people deny that the KJB is the inerrant, infalliable, Word of God. I had no idea so many "Baptists" believed anything else.<<<
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Well Sister, as we say down south, "ya aint seen nuthin yet" We are in the last days of which the apostle said that there would be a falling away, most mv'ers will tell you that these are not the regenerated but if one falls away one must have something to fall away from, so, Its the body of Christ that is falling away, not losing their salvation, apostasy, within the body. Its sad, but the attack must be upon the very word and words of the Living God who most certainly did preserve his word intact in the universal language of the earth in the last days, you know, there is not an air traffic controller that can speak Chineese or Russian at the Atlanta air port, but you can be sure that there is not an international air port in the world where there is not an English speaker...wonder why? Is there someone somewhere that thinks that God Almighty didnt know that the universal language of the last days would be English,


The beast in Revelation speaks english, he has the mouth of a lion----but---I hear the knashing of teeth so I will forebear,

Charlie

 

[charlie parker]

Orvie wrote>>Hi Tonja- we ALL believe God has preserved His Word...However, some believe He has PICKLED it in English in the KJV, the rest of us believe that He preserved it in the same place He did even before 1611.<<
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You betcha they believe He preserved it Tonja, but since He didnt "pickle" it in english if you or I want to know what God said we have to go to one of them to find out, since they can read "the originals" and we cant, poooor us.
Charlie

 

[charlie parker]

gnashing, ;-(
Charlie

 

[Orvie]

Originally posted by charlie parker:
Orvie wrote>>Hi Tonja- we ALL believe God has preserved His Word...However, some believe He has PICKLED it in English in the KJV, the rest of us believe that He preserved it in the same place He did even before 1611.<<
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You betcha they believe He preserved it Tonja, but since He didnt "pickle" it in english if you or I want to know what God said we have to go to one of them to find out, since they can read "the originals" and we cant, poooor us.
Charlie

Why not "study" (2 Tim 2:15) and learn the language of the Originals? Even if you are KJVO it'll enhance that particular (and any) version. And you said about not reading the Originals, as if we're implying you don't have access to God's Word, but bear in mind that so many English readers have great difficulty with the old English of the KJV. Which is better, to master the old English, or master the very languages God Himself chose to inspire His Word? I know what the easiest is to do...

 

[charlie parker]

Orvie wrote>>Why not "study" (2 Tim 2:15) and learn the language of the Originals? Even if you are KJVO it'll enhance that particular (and any) version. And you said about not reading the Originals, as if we're implying you don't have access to God's Word, but bear in mind that so many English readers have great difficulty with the old English of the KJV. Which is better, to master the old English, or master the very languages God Himself chose to inspire His Word? I know what the easiest is to do...<<<
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Well that complets the circle, we're back to th "original" languages which you nor anyone else on the earth have ever seen or heard, and will admit to, while insisting that they have "the bible" my 5 yr old granddaughter has no trouble not only reading it but can memorize it,

Charlie

 

[Ed Edwards]

Iob I.3 (KJV1611):

His ||substance also was seuen thousand sheepe, ... "

Sidenote: || Or, cattell.

Iob I.3 (KJV1611alt):

His cattell also was seuen thousand sheepe, ... "

TeeHee: his cattle are sheep

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Tonja Buettner:
I am in complete shock that so many people deny that the KJB is the inerrant, infalliable, Word of God. I had no idea so many "Baptists" believed anything else.

Can you point to the page in this topic where
someone said this? As far as i am concerned,
it is against board principles to
say the KJB, or any other Bible for that
matter, is inerrant. So i want to
know where what you said was said by
anybody else. Thank you.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by charlie parker:
Also, I too give the same warning about the mv cult.

Charlie, consider yourself warned about using words like "cult". This is not allowed as it questions salvation (since cult is evil)

Suggest you use "sect" or "sub-sect" that still believes the same basic truth, but sees it in a different light.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by charlie parker:
paedo-baptizing Anglican priests---Lets look at the NeoEvangelical founders of the new king jimmy . .

Second warning this afternoon. Use respect when you talk about the Word of God, Charles. "new king jimmy" is a base and degrading term for God's Word, and will not be tolerated.

Now, to the issue at hand.

Version #1 is translated by mostly unsaved, paedo-baptizing Anglican priests. It is called "perfect", "inspired", "preserved".

Version #2 has all translators who are born again believers but some are new evangelical. It is called "evil", "error-filled", "per-version".

Hmmm. Which one would YOU think more reliable? Which group of men would you say are "closer to God" - unsaved English catholics or saved new evangelicals. Hmmm.

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by Tonja Buettner:
We serve a God that formed the world and everything you see from nothing, He can keep a soul from burning in hell, yet He can't keep His Word preserved thru the ages.

Amazing...Simply Amazing!

What else CAN'T he do? Why CAN'T he make a person fluent in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic at the instant of salvation so this would not be a source of conflict and confusion? Why COULDN'T he have had the Bible written in English in the first place? Why CAN'T he make his word known to people through the languages they are immediately familiar with? Why CAN'T/COULDN'T he assign a gang of translators to do a perfect translation who know that is what they are/were doing. [That excludes the KJV translators, in case you don't know.]

 

[Trotter]

Its sad, but the attack must be upon the very word and words of the Living God

Charlie, Charlie, Charlie, have you not figured it out yet?

I do not know of ONE, no, not one person on this entire Board who would condemn the King James. And I doubt that you could find one either. But what we do condemn, and attack, and defy, is the man-made doctrine of KJVOnlyism.

Go ahead. Ask around. PM or email as many on this Board as you wish. You will not find a single one who would dismiss the KJV. Instead, you would find that almost all use the KJV, but not exclusively. You would find that most of the preachers and teachers here use the KJV in the pulpit and in the classroom. You would find that almost all who have memorized Scripture have memorized it from the King James.

But you will find many, like myself, who would be willing to take up the fight against the false teaching of KJVOnlyism. There are many who look to the original languages as their authority (not the original manuscripts...no one has these, so it is a moot point, and really pretty ignorant to try to use as an arguement), not (as has been accused) themselves.

I am in complete shock that so many people deny that the KJB is the inerrant, infalliable, Word of God. I had no idea so many "Baptists" believed anything else.

We serve a God that formed the world and everything you see from nothing, He can keep a soul from burning in hell, yet He can't keep His Word preserved thru the ages.

Amazing...Simply Amazing!

No, Tanja, it is not that we deny that God's word is inerrant and infalliable. It is that we deny that the KJV is the only translation that is.

God HAS preserved His word. He did a great job of it before 1611, and has continued to do so time and time again in many different translations throughout the ages.

I, for one, along with a host of others, believe that God's word is just as powerful in the KJV as in the NKJV, NASB, CEV, NIV, a myriad of others. God did not wait until 1611, and then set up a monopoly on His inerrant and infalliable word. He gave the Scriptures to the writers in their respective languages. Men copied these words faithfully for all those years. Other men translated those words into other languages so that the truth of God's word could be understood by more. And this continues today.

Not everyone can understand the language of the KJV. That is personally my biggest gripe against the KJV. Am I saying that people are dumber today than they used to be? Yes, and that they will not sit and try to puzzle it out because time is now the most precious comodity we have. If a man or woman cannot open the book and be able to read and understand what it says, they will close it and never look back.

I love the KJV, and use it. But I prefer my NKJV, and I teach from it.

But I oppose the false man-made doctrine of King James Version Only.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by charlie parker:
they added notes that bro. C.I. would have lynched them if he had not been dead,

Doubtful. Scofield was not KJVO and I can provide the proof if you don't believe me.

For instance the 1917 note on I John 5:7: "It is generally agreed that v.7 has no real authority, and has been inserted."

Oh here's a direct quote from CI himself in the "Introduction":

The discovery of the Sinaitic MS. and the labours in the field of textual criticism of such scholars as Griesbach, Lachmann, Tischendorf, Tregelles, Winer, Alford, and Westcott and Hort, have Cleared the Greek textus receptus of minor inaccuracies, while confirming in a remarkable degree the general accuracy(emphasis mine) of the Authorized Version of that text. Such emendations (corrections) of the text as scholarship demands have been placed in the margins of this edition (emphasis mine),...

 

[Trotter]

Ed,

Sorry for the book I wrote above. I guess I can see how easy it is to get carried away.

Besides, I think you know who I was talking to in the other thread.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[tinytim]

Jim, >>> "Scott, I have yet to meet an mv "defender" who isn't a willful liar. if there is one out there, then I would be pleased to meet him/her."

Hi, my name is tinytim. I am a mv "defender" and I am not a willful liar. I was raised IFB. Historic IFB, that is. My dad was a pastor of about 3 different IFBs, while I was growing up.
I was saved when I was 8 yrs old. Jr high SS teacher when I was 17. I found out early that I had the gift of teaching. At age 19 an event happened in my life that caused me to think all preachers and Christians were phoneys. But God had other plans. I got married, got back in church, rededicated my life, and God called me to preach in 1995. since then I've been a youth pastor at three different churches and senior pastor at one. I am now a youth pastor and love it!
Anyway, growing up I never heard of any debate about KJVOism. We used the KJV, but also accepted other versions. I remember a revival that we had, that a preacher used another version, and we had about 40 saved and baptized. It wasn't the preacher, or the version he used, It was God working through his people.

Around 1997, I came into contact with KJVOism, and fell for it head over heels. It wasn't until the last year that I actually started researching the facts for myself. The more I found, the more I started appreciating other versions. I found a lot of lies and false logic on the KJVO side. And when the KJVO is shown facts, they either ignore them, or insult people that have an education. How many times have you seen the word "cemetary" used for seminary? That is slandering God's men that are devoted enough to get an education, before going out preaching half-truths.
From where I stand the KJVOs are afraid of the truth.

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by charlie parker:
Is there someone somewhere that thinks that God Almighty didnt know that the universal language of the last days would be English,


The beast in Revelation speaks english, he has the mouth of a lion----but---I hear the knashing of teeth so I will forebear,

Charlie

WHAT????????????????
I suppose the average person in Iraq, Japan, Uganda, is fluent in English! That is the most absurd statement I think a KJVO has ever said.

You can't even go into a major city in the US, and expect the language to be English.

And prove from any bible you want that the beast will speak english. You can't. Go ahead and show me where it says he will speak in English.

That's one problem with KJVOs, they pridefully assume that just because they see things around them locally, that it is like that world wide.

As moderator of our local association I have to answer questions from local churches about association business.

I was at a church one time that wanted to make sure that our missionarys in Africa were using a KJV to win souls. You should have seen the proverbial light bulbs, light over their heads when I explained that they witness in the language of the country and tribe they are sharing the Gospel with.

Christians need to wake up and think universal, instead of living in their own little bubble.

 

[Phillip]

I was told one time by a KJVO that if they translated another language off of the English KJV then it would be okay.

 

[tinytim]

I was a member in a ifb church onetime that was raising money so that misssionaries could produce bibles off of the KJV.

 

[riverwalker]

Didn't the Original 1611 contain the Apocrypha? From what MSS was the Apocrypha translated from?

 

[pinoybaptist]

I am in full agreement with Trotter. No one in this board condemns the use of the KJV.

I used to be KJV Only also but dropped that doctrine for a few reasons foremost of which is this, and I would appreciate any KJVO-Calvinist answering:

If the elect must hear the Gospel in order to be converted or called (since Calvinists also hold that regeneration happens before conversion), and if the KJV is the true word of God in English, and there were very little Latin Vulgates (mostly witheld from the masses by Roman Catholic priests) and very little Tyndale versions, then which Gospel, which Word of God, did God use to effectually call His people before the printing press was invented ?

I throw the same question to KJVO Arminians. Before the KJV Bibles came about, how then did those fanatics and blasphemers increase in number and thus prompt the start of the Dark Ages ?

 

[Jim Ward]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jim Ward:
Scott, I have yet to meet an mv "defender" who isn't a willful liar.

And tit-for-tat, if we allowed this attack from you, we would say, "I have yet to meet an "only" who isn't a sladerer . . . "

Com'on Jim. We DO NOT ALLOW folks to call each other "liar". You know that. </font>[/QUOTE]Clarification time Dr Bob, what you allow is attacks from those who beleive the mv myth, but wen a Bible believer speaks the truth you seek to shut them up.


Typical since to be an mvist you have to have a douple standard SOP (what's ok for you to do is NOT ok for someone else to do).


What I have noticed is that mv "defenders" are very very very thin-skinned, and they react to things in a manner that shows guilt, shame, conviction and a strong desire to silence the truth.

I've noticed time and again in boards where the "leaderhip" holds to the mythical mv view, that those who "defend" the mvs can get away with anything they want, but at the same time, the "leadership" hypocritically does not allow the same for the Bible believer. Beleive or not, not a one of these people realizes how damaging to their view this behavior is, nor how blatantly offensive it is. Sadly, I have not come to expect anymore then this from the mv camp. After all, when the doctrine/belief is not based in truth, it will manifest that reality in actions done, as you all have so clearly shown for us in here.

Thank you to you and your fellow mv "defender" brethren for proving how false your mythical, mv cult view rightly is.


Jim