Questions for nondispensationalists

[The Harvest]

quote:
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Originally posted by The Harvest:
By the way, nobody is actually answering the questions in my orignal post.
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I did. The Law was, as I said, the civil constitution of Israel. The purpose of the Law was to govern life in Israel. We don't keep it now because we are not in Israel; we are in teh church.

I stand corrected. However, what about the rest of the questions? I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, holding my nose up high, I just am curious to what people think that believe salvation has always been the same.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by The Harvest:
2. People in the OT performed sacrifices (works) because God told them to (faith). Why did they have to perform sacrifices for the forgiveness (see the book of Leviticus) of sins if Jesus' blood was already covering their sins? (see Heb 10:4, 11)[/qutoe]Jesus blood was not already covering their sins. The sacrifices were commanded and their offering was an act of faith in God.

When you die in your sins you go to Hell. If a person believes that salvation has always been the same, then you can lose your salvation according to this text.

NMo, I don't think that follows at all.

4. If salvation has always been the same, how could King Saul lose his salvation? And Samson, he lost his and got it back. If salvation has always been the same, why can't I lose my salvation.

he didn't lose it and neither were you.

5. If you believe people in the OT were saved by looking forward to the cross, then do this. Pretend you are Adam. I just came up to you and asked how to stay out of Hell. Tell me. Now pretend you are Noah. I just walked up to you at that big boat you're building and asked you how I stay out of Hell. Tell me. OK, now you are Moses. How do I stay out of Hell Moses?

I don't believe people were saved by looking forward to the cross. There is not enough info int eh OT to verify that. I believe people were saved by responding to the revelation of God available to them.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Siegfried:
Unless I'm mistaken, he's studied under men, one in particular, who are known for their commitment to dispensationalism.

You are right

 

[The Harvest]

quote:
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Originally posted by Siegfried:
Unless I'm mistaken, he's studied under men, one in particular, who are known for their commitment to dispensationalism.
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You are right

Who have you studied under? What do you think about Larkin's Book on Dispensations?

 

[LadyEagle]

Wow, what a hateful thread.

So much for friendly discussions.

 

[LadyEagle]

What do you think about Larkin's Book on Dispensations?

I think it is wonderful. Furthermore, Clarence Larkin's own life is one of glorifying the Lord.

Perhaps we could all learn from his attitude:

When World War I broke out in 1914, he was called on for addresses on The War and Prophecy. Then God laid it on his heart to prepare a work on Dispensational Truth (or God's Plan and Purpose in the Ages), containing a number of charts with descriptive matter. He spent three years of his life designing and drawing the charts and preparing the text. The favorable reception it has had since it was first published in 1918 seems to indicate that the world was waiting for such a book.

Because it had a large and wide circulation in this and other lands, the first edition was soon exhausted. It was followed by a second edition, and then, realizing that the book was of permanent value, Larkin revised it and expanded it, printing it in its present form. Larkin followed this masterpiece with other books: Rightly Dividing the Word, The Book of Daniel, Spirit World, Second Coming of Christ, and A Medicine Chest for Christian Practitioners, a handbook on evangelism.

Larkin, a kind and gentle man, deplored the tendency of writers to say uncharitable things about each other, so he earnestly sought to avoid criticisms and to satisfy himself with simply presenting his understanding of the Scriptures. Though he did not intend to publish his own works, the Lord led in that direction. During the last five years of his life, the demand for Larkin's books made it necessary for him to give up the pastorate and devote his full time to writing. He went to be with the Lord on January 24, 1924.

http://www.ministryhelps.com/Catalog/Larkin/LarkinBio.htm

 

[Ransom]

The Harvest said:

By the way, nobody is actually answering the questions in my orignal post.

If you wanted answers, you shouldn't have poisoned the well by declaring a wide assortment of your readers unsaved.

Too bad I'm not worthy to wipe the floor with you.

[ January 21, 2003, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[The Harvest]

SheEagle

Why do say this is a hateful thread? I think we have all been pretty nice here. No name calling, no spitting or kicking. Just debating a hot topic. Maybe I didn't pick up on someone's feelings getting hurt (except for the first couple of posts).

 

[The Harvest]

If you wanted answers, you shouldn't have poisoned the well by declaring a wide assortment of your readers unsaved.

OK if you are too scared of the topic to answer the questions, then respond to this one.

Prove the TULIP from the Bible. Keeping in mind that you must "Rightly divide the word of truth". 2 Tim 2:15

 

[Ransom]

The Harvest:

OK if you are too scared of the topic to answer the questions, then respond to this one.

I am more than happy to discuss hermeneutics or the doctrines of grace with people who are willing to discuss them, and there are several people on the BB who can attest that I am not afraid to express my views.

But as for you, you had your chance, and you chose to squander it by declaring Calvinists "unsaved" before they even had a chance to get a word in.

In short: Tough darts.

[ January 21, 2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[The Harvest]

I am more than happy to discuss hermeneutics or the doctrines of grace with people who are willing to discuss them, and there are several people on the BB who can attest that I am not afraid to express my views.

But as for you, you had your chance, and you chose to squander it by declaring Calvinists "unsaved" before they even had a chance to get a word in.

In short: Tough darts.

the last time i heard someone whine this loud, i was reading letters that James White wrote to Peter Ruckman. you sound just like ol' Jimmy. I think you just don't know enough about your religion to explain it to me.

 

[rlvaughn]

Originally posted by The Harvest:
...Keeping in mind that you must "Rightly divide the word of truth". 2 Tim 2:15

The Harvest, in the interest of having a more fruitful discussion, perhaps you should define some terms. First, so we will know who are the non-dispensationalists that should be answering the question, what does "dispensationalist" mean to you? Second, do you mean by "rightly dividing the word of truth" that you will only accept answers that agree with your brand of dispensationalism (Bible divisions)? Thanks.

 

[Ransom]

The Harvest said:

the last time i heard someone whine this loud, i was reading letters that James White wrote to Peter Ruckman. you sound just like ol' Jimmy.

Thank you for the compliment.

I think you just don't know enough about your religion to explain it to me.

Too bad you blew your chance to find out, eh?

 

[The Harvest]

The Harvest, in the interest of having a more fruitful discussion, perhaps you should define some terms. First, so we will know who are the non-dispensationalists that should be answering the question, what does "dispensationalist" mean to you? Second, do you mean by "rightly dividing the word of truth" that you will only accept answers that agree with your brand of dispensationalism (Bible divisions)? Thanks.

all right, back on the subject. the people i'm looking for answers from are the people who believe that in the old testament, people "looked forward to the cross" for salvation. these people are the ones that believe salvation has always been the same. they also believe that there was no such place as Abraham's Bosom (aka Paradise) and that OT saints went straight to Heaven.

A dispensationalist believes that there are divisions in the Bible. The Bible is broken down into different dispensations where God dealt with man differently to teach man about Himself.

Also, the books, chapters and verses in the different dispensations (other than grace which we are under) do not apply to us doctrinally. However, they do have practical and spiritual applications.

 

[The Harvest]

the last time i heard someone whine this loud, i was reading letters that James White wrote to Peter Ruckman. you sound just like ol' Jimmy.

Thank you for the compliment.

if you thought that was a compliment, then i don't want to learn about TULIP doctrine from you.

I think you just don't know enough about your religion to explain it to me.

Too bad you blew your chance to find out, eh?
*editted with a final warning...PLEASE do not point a finger at others and label them apostate just because they do not agree with your particular view of the Bible. Thank you* Jim, moderator

[ January 21, 2003, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]

 

[rlvaughn]

What if they think salvation has always been the same (by grace), but do not think OT believers went straight to heaven? Can they answer? What if they believe in dispensations but not the same ones you do? Should they answer? Could you describe what you think the dispensations are? Don't just name them, please use the Bible to show which ones are named in it.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Originally posted by The Harvest:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

maybe i can find some other apostate to explain it to me...eh?</font>[/QUOTE]Harvest; You need an attitude adjustment. You don't want answers...you want an argument.
Sue

 

[The Harvest]

Harvest; You need an attitude adjustment. You don't want answers...you want an argument.
Sue

No, I do want answers. But I have only gotten one straight answer from someone. Pastor Larry is the only one who answered my actual questions.

Also, Sue, please see 1 Tim 2:12.

[ January 21, 2003, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Originally posted by The Harvest:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Harvest; You need an attitude adjustment. You don't want answers...you want an argument.
Sue

No, I do want answers. But I have only gotten one straight answer from someone. Pastor Larry is the only one who answered my actual questions.

Everyone else is too thin-skinned to get down to the real issue.

Also, Sue, please see 1 Tim 2:12.</font>[/QUOTE]You have called most of the Christians on this board either unsaved, apostates, uneducated or thin-skinned. No wonder you don't get the answers you want. This is my last post on this thread. It is not edifying. I read your scripture. Fortunately, this forum allows women to speak freely. You have just alienated another sector of Christians. If you don't want to hear women speak I suggest you post in the "Men's Only Forum". I read your scripture, now you read mine. Proverbs 16:18

Sue

 

[Bible-belted]

Yes, I guessed that you were a KJVO of the Ruckmanite variety.

No use then telling you what the Greek underlying "describeth" means. You don't care.

But let's have a dose of reality here. To say that David describeth does not mean that he was describing something totally foreign to him. As I indicated, he was describing something that he experienced. So says the Word of God in Psalm 32. That makes him one of those whom you say does not exist. And that is using a very literal hermenutic.

Maybe you care to spiritualise the Word of God and so deny its plain meaning, but I do not.

[ January 21, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Latreia ]