Questions on the Judgment of Believers

[Steven Yeadon]

OK, this one has me kind of stumped. I am told that Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:9-10 show that there will be a judgment of believers one day before Jesus. The term for judgment seat here is Bema, from what I know this is the seat of the guest of honor and official over the gaming event. This implies that special rewards will be handed out as far as I know.

However, many Christians I know have died as my pastor put it: "Babes in Christ." We even had a sermon on the subject of the prevalence of "Babes in Christ" in the church. Going with this thought, what will be done with those that bore very little fruit and matured very little due to their own choices on such a day? Will they simply get no special favors at all? Or is there something far more sinister going on here?

 

[agedman]

Perhaps there are two ways to view this event.

One would be that picture of judgment in which the deeds are stacked and sorted, that one is as a builder using materials in construction, that which will be tried and consumed or not consumed by fire. Paul presents this in 1Corintians 3.

Another picture is that of a reward ceremony. All gather and a few are noted for exceptionalism. Such may be crowns, rides, special name, star, ...

 

[Yeshua1]

OK, this one has me kind of stumped. I am told that Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:9-10 show that there will be a judgment of believers one day before Jesus. The term for judgment seat here is Bema, from what I know this is the seat of the guest of honor and official over the gaming event. This implies that special rewards will be handed out as far as I know.

However, many Christians I know have died as my pastor put it: "Babes in Christ." We even had a sermon on the subject of the prevalence of "Babes in Christ" in the church. Going with this thought, what will be done with those that bore very little fruit and matured very little due to their own choices on such a day? Will they simply get no special favors at all? Or is there something far more sinister going on here?

Jesus answered that in His parable on the workers being paid same wages, regardless of when they started working, as ALl saved have eternal life, its just that God will reward based upon faithfulness to Christ.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

At this point I am stumped again, but I will begin with what doesn't stump me:

1. Yeshua1 is right in that a big part of this is that God will reward his servants equally in the end with eternal life.

2. The parable of the talents and the parable of the minas show we will still receive more or less according to how much we were given. Given how we invest it for God's fame to be spread and His will to be done on earth. The parable of the talents would seem to be an aspect of Jesus' Bema seat, and because of this parable I can see various rewards equivalent to "taking charge of a city" being given to believers.

Thus, while still a mysterious thing to us, the judgment of believers appears to be such that we receive varying prizes for our hard work, but all faithful believers in the end get the ultimate prize of eternal life no matter how long they have been saved or how long and hard they have worked.

Now, I will turn to what stumps me:

1. What in the world does it mean to be saved as through fire as told to us in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15? Does this apply to just church leaders, which were being discussed just before or does it apply to all believers at the Day?

2. What is the difference between "believers saved as through fire" and "believers" who are cast into hell for practicing lawlessness and forsaking the will of our Father in heaven (Matthew 7:21-23)?

 

[JonC]

And if you address as Father the one who impartially judges according to each one’s work, live out the time of your temporary residence here in reverence.

1 Pt. 1:17

 

[Steven Yeadon]

reverence.

Ah, the fear of the Lord. As someone who thought the concept of fearing God was stupid when I was a Moderate Evangelical, I now understand that the universe makes no sense if God was not feared by us and obeyed because of this fear. Let alone the fact we love Him for loving us first because he is our good Father.

 

[JonC]

Ah, the fear of the Lord. As someone who thought the concept of fearing God was stupid when I was a Moderate Evangelical, I now understand that the universe makes no sense if God was not feared by us and obeyed because of this fear. Let alone the fact we love Him for loving us first because he is our good Father.

Part of the unwanted effects of evangelical theology has been a minimalization of sin because it is believed the consequences already paid. It's sad, but there is no fear.

 

[David Kent]

Part of the unwanted effects of evangelical theology has been a minimalization of sin because it is believed the consequences already paid. It's sad, but there is no fear.

I am not sure exactly what you mean. Baptist theology is evangelical Theology. Baptists are Evangelicals, or at least should be. If fact all true Christians should have evangelical theology.

One young man from our county and only about eight miles from here was burn't to death on 4th July 1533, accused of being a gospeller. That is what we all should be. Evangelical means someone who preaches the gospel. Unfortunately not all who call themselves Evangelical believe that, and neither do many baptists.

 

[JonC]

I am not sure exactly what you mean. Baptist theology is evangelical Theology. Baptists are Evangelicals, or at least should be. If fact all true Christians should have evangelical theology.

One young man from our county and only about eight miles from here was burn't to death on 4th July 1533, accused of being a gospeller. That is what we all should be. Evangelical means someone who preaches the gospel. Unfortunately not all who call themselves Evangelical believe that, and neither do many baptists.

I am talking about the movement that would include Baptists.

 

[Yeshua1]

Part of the unwanted effects of evangelical theology has been a minimalization of sin because it is believed the consequences already paid. It's sad, but there is no fear.

What branch teaches that?

 

[JonC]

What branch teaches that?

Branch?

 

[Yeshua1]

Branch?

What part of evangelical theology?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

What part of evangelical theology?

I agree with JonC. The fear of the Lord is the most alien thing I had to learn after becoming a fundamentalist. My bible study and Southern Baptist church had not prepared me for the fact I am to be terrified of God on a real level. Then I could learn "boldness before the throne."

The way I hear it nowadays, people go: "Oh don't worry about your sin, God will examine your heart for you in a pleasant and loving way, he will walk with you and talk to you, he will explain what you did wrong and say he is disappointed, so do not fear."

As if this has any bearing on the Living God of the bible who sits enthroned above the nations and the Cherubim, of all scary people. Its almost like people think Morgan Freedman's portrayal of God was accurate of the Almighty.

God is a terrifying entity, as He should be. We learn to be bold in his presence as far as I have learned myself. We come to accept He loves us as a good Father despite our fear of Him. In that way He is not some father high up in the clouds, but a real Father who disciplines and corrects His children. Children that rightly fear Him for this.

 

[JonC]

What part of evangelical theology?

See post #9

 

[Revmitchell]

We are not to be terrified of God as unbelievers should be but we should have an awe of Him, a special kind of reverence above all other things.

 

[JonC]

We are not to be terrified of God as unbelievers should be but we should have an awe of Him, a special kind of reverence above all other things.

I agree. We are His children. But at the same time the reason for this "fear" or reverence that Peter gives is that God will judge us by our works. So it is a serious "reverance".

 

[Steven Yeadon]

We are not to be terrified of God as unbelievers should be but we should have an awe of Him, a special kind of reverence above all other things.

Reverence is what we are asked to give, this is true. But reverence is profound awe and the dictionary definition of awe means:
An emotion variously combining dread, veneration, and wonder that is inspired by authority or by the sacred or sublime
Definition of AWE

I now understand I do not have enough veneration of God in my own reverence. However, reverence includes profound dread, an emotion almost foreign to the American church. I would say that of these three: dread, wonder, and veneration. Most American churches teach wonder well, try to teach veneration and often fail, and hardly bother to teach dread.

 

[Alcott]

Questions on the Judgment of Believers

A lot of believers do have questionable judgment.

 

[Revmitchell]

Reverence is what we are asked to give, this is true. But reverence is profound awe and the dictionary definition of awe means:
An emotion variously combining dread, veneration, and wonder that is inspired by authority or by the sacred or sublime
Definition of AWE

I now understand I do not have enough veneration of God in my own reverence. However, reverence includes profound dread, an emotion almost foreign to the American church. I would say that of these three: dread, wonder, and veneration. Most American churches teach wonder well, try to teach veneration and often fail, and hardly bother to teach dread.

I am sorry brother but that is not how believers should see the Father. Dead is not appropriate for believers. Dead is purely negative. We should understand God's power (as much as is possible with finite minds), We should remember our place in His presence, we should understand our sinful condition in comparison to a Holy and righteous God. Dread is what the lost should experience seeing as they have no hope but to experience the wrath of God. Your intentions are well meaning just a bit misguided.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I am sorry brother but that is not how believers should see the Father. Dead is not appropriate for believers. Dead is purely negative. We should understand God's power (as much as is possible with finite minds), We should remember our place in His presence, we should understand our sinful condition in comparison to a Holy and righteous God. Dread is what the lost should experience seeing as they have no hope but to experience the wrath of God. Your intentions are well meaning just a bit misguided.

I hold firmly to how God has revealed Himself in the Old Covenant as a good way to relate Him today, that needs to be updated with the New Covenant but not replaced. I will just have to disagree with you. I can think of no other word than "dreadful" to imagine standing before the presence of the Cherubim while in His courts. Let alone standing before the holy, holy, holy God of all creation.