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Questions we’re not suppose to ask

S

stilllearning

Active Member
Hi C4K

You said.......
“Again, you claim that my long time friend John of Japan can do this in Japanese, but that it can't be done in English.”
Click to expand...
John has stated, that he was using the TR, for his New Testament translation work:
And if that means what I think it means, than his translation will be protected from those changes.
 
Trotter

Trotter

<img src =/6412.jpg>
Ed said:
A loch full of logic cannot quinch a firey brand of illogic :-((
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I have learned that lesson with this thread, Ed. It took God tapping me on the shoulder and showing me that I was only pounding my head against a brick wall and raising my blood pressure. Instead of posting I am praying, as that will have much more effect than words that I may type.
 
NaasPreacher (C4K)

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
Trotter said:
I have learned that lesson with this thread, Ed. It took God tapping me on the shoulder and showing me that I was only pounding my head against a brick wall and raising my blood pressure. Instead of posting I am praying, as that will have much more effect than words that I may type.
Click to expand...

Amen. I had to take my signature line to heart :)
 
W

wfdfiremedic

New Member
stilllearning said:
Hi C4K

You said.......

John has stated, that he was using the TR, for his New Testament translation work:
And if that means what I think it means, than his translation will be protected from those changes.
Click to expand...


Brother,

What specific doctrine do you believe is effected by the MV's? I am asking this in all sincerity.
 
S

stilllearning

Active Member
Hello wfdfiremedic

Nice to hear from you.

You asked........
“What specific doctrine do you believe is effected by the MV's? I am asking this in all sincerity.”
Click to expand...
That is an interesting question.

I am glad you used the word “effected”, instead of “changed”, because when it comes to Bible doctrine, simply being “effected”, can cause a great deal of harm.

Years ago Gail Riplinger, came out with a book that pointed out all the “doctrines”, that the MV’s were attacking(the Deity of Christ, for one), and she did this by listing all the places(chapter and verse), the modern versions of her time had changed words and removed verses and passages, etc.
And it was devastating to the modern versions.

Well the publishers of these Bibles fixed her wagon good:
You see Gail had assumed, that since these were Bibles, that her book would forever be a testimony of what they were doing.

But what happened, was that when the following issues of these MV’s came out, the publishers had doctored them up.
Where “virgin” had been changed to “young maiden” in Isaiah 7:14, now it was changed back to virgin. Etc,
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This same thing also happened when years ago, when someone came out with a Christian film called “the god makers”, about the damnable heresies of the Mormons.
Listing all the ungodly things found in the book of Mormon.

And so the Mormons simply edited out, the objectionable passages.
(This is why today, the Mormons will pay almost anything, to get their hands on an old book of Mormon.)
--------------------------------------------------
Now to your question:
Any of us will be hard pressed, to find any Doctrine actually “changed”, in these modern versions, but they showed their true colors, when their early editions came out.

But even today, doctrine is “effected” by the subtle changes made in these Bibles.

And even if that wasn’t the case: Who wants to place their Spiritual life, in the hands of a Bible, that will change with every wind that comes down the pick.
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One Doctrine change, that I can attest to, is found in the book of Acts........

Acts 15:34
“Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.”

Most modern versions, either totally remove this verse, or badmouth it to death.
Now right away, some would ask, “well what’s the harm”?

Well this verse, is a reminder to me, of the importance of learning to listing to the Lord’s still small voice.
Here, the Lord spoke to Silas’ heart, having him stay in Antioch, where a few days later Paul would find him, and the two of them would end up in prison together.

Christians that use MV’s, would miss out completely on this.
 
W

wfdfiremedic

New Member
ah...check this my bother......



Philippians 2 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

Philippians 2
Christian Humility
1 If then there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, (A) if any fellowship with the Spirit, (B) if any affection and mercy, (C) 2 fulfill my joy by thinking the same way, (D) having the same love, (E) sharing the same feelings, focusing on one (F) goal. 3 Do nothing out of rivalry (G) or conceit, (H) but in humility (I) consider others as more important (J) than yourselves. 4 Everyone should look out not [only] for his own interests, (K) but also for the interests of others. (L)


Christ's Humility and Exaltation
5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,
6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God (M)

as something to be used for His own advantage. [a]

7 Instead He emptied Himself (N) by assuming the form of a slave, (O)

taking on the likeness of men. (P)

And when He had come as a man in His external form,

8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient

to the point of death—even to death on a cross. (Q)

9 For this reason God also highly exalted Him (R)

and gave Him the name that is above every name,

10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow—

of those who are in heaven (S) and on earth and under the earth (T) —

11 and every tongue (U) should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory (V) of God the Father.



Lights in the World
12 So then, my dear friends, (W) just as you have always obeyed, (X) not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God who is working in you, [enabling you] both to will and to act for His good purpose. 14 Do everything without grumbling (Y) and arguing, (Z) 15 so that you may be blameless (AA) and pure, (AB) children of God who are faultless (AC) in a crooked (AD) and perverted (AE) generation, (AF) among whom you shine like stars in the world. 16 Hold firmly the message (AG) of life. Then I can boast (AH) in the day of Christ (AI) that I didn't run in vain or labor for nothing. 17 But even if I am poured out (AJ) as a drink offering (AK) on the sacrifice and service of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. 18 In the same way you also should rejoice and share your joy with me.


Timothy and Epaphroditus
19 Now I hope in the Lord Jesus (AL) to send Timothy (AM) to you soon so that I also may be encouraged when I hear news about you. 20 For I have no one else like-minded who will genuinely care about your interests; 21 all seek their own interests, (AN) not those of Jesus Christ. (AO) 22 But you know his proven character, because he has served with me in the gospel ministry like a son with a father. 23 Therefore, I hope to send him as soon as I see how things go with me. 24 And I am convinced in the Lord that I myself will also come quickly. (AP)
25 But I considered it necessary to send you Epaphroditus (AQ) —my brother, co-worker, and fellow soldier, as well as your messenger and minister to my need (AR) — 26 since he has been longing for all of you and was distressed because you heard that he was sick. 27 Indeed, he was so sick that he nearly died. However, God had mercy on him, and not only on him but also on me, so that I would not have one grief on top of another. 28 For this reason, I am very eager to send him so that you may rejoice when you see him again and I may be less anxious. 29 Therefore, welcome him in the Lord with all joy and hold men like him in honor, 30 because he came close to death for the work (AS) of Christ, risking his life to make up what was lacking in your ministry to me.


Colossians 1 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

Colossians 1
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by God's will, (A) and Timothy (B) our [a] brother:
2 To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ in Colossae.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father.



Thanksgiving
3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 for we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints 5 because of the hope reserved for you in heaven. You have already heard about [this hope] in the message of truth, (C) 6 the gospel that has come to you. It is bearing fruit (D) and growing all over the world, (E) just as it has among you since the day you heard it and recognized God's grace (F) in the truth. (G) [c] 7 You learned this from Epaphras, (H) our much loved fellow slave. He is a faithful minister of the Messiah (I) on your [d] behalf, 8 and he has told us about your love in the Spirit. (J)


Prayer for Spiritual Growth
9 For this reason also, since the day we heard this, we haven't stopped praying for you. We are asking (K) that you may be filled with the knowledge (L) of His will (M) in all wisdom and spiritual understanding, 10 so that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing [to Him], bearing fruit in every good work (N) and growing in the knowledge of God. (O) 11 May you be strengthened (P) with all power, (Q) according to His glorious (R) might, for all endurance and patience, with joy 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has enabled you [e] to share in the saints' [f] inheritance in the light. (S) 13 He has rescued (T) us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom (U) of the Son (V) He loves, (W) 14 in whom we have redemption, [g] the forgiveness of sins.


The Centrality of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, (X)
the firstborn over all creation; (Y) [h]

16 because by Him everything was created, (Z)

in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible,

whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—

all things have been created through Him and for Him. (AA)

17 He is before all things, (AB) and by Him all things (AC) hold together.

18 He is also the head of the body, the church;

He is the beginning, (AD) the firstborn from the dead, (AE)

so that He might come to have first place in everything.

19 For God was pleased [to have] all His fullness (AF) dwell in Him, (AG)

20 and through Him to reconcile everything to Himself

by making peace (AH) through the blood (AI) of His cross (AJ) —

whether things on earth or things in heaven.

21 And you were once alienated and hostile in mind because of your evil actions. 22 But now He has reconciled you by His physical body [j] through His death, (AK) to present you holy, faultless, (AL) and blameless before Him (AM) — 23 if indeed you remain grounded and steadfast in the faith, (AN) and are not shifted away from the hope (AO) of the gospel that you heard. [This gospel] has been proclaimed in all creation (AP) under heaven, (AQ) and I, Paul, (AR) have become a minister of it.



Paul's Ministry
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings (AS) for you, and I am completing in my flesh what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for His body, (AT) that is, the church. 25 I have become its minister, according to God's administration that was given to me for you, to make God's message fully known, 26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to His saints. 27 God wanted to make known to those among the Gentiles the glorious wealth of this mystery, which is Christ (AU) in you, the hope (AV) of glory. 28 We proclaim Him, warning and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone mature in Christ. 29 I labor for this, striving (AW) with His strength that works powerfully in me.




Sir, with no disrespect I ask if the MV deny the deity of Christ?
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
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S

stilllearning

Active Member
Hello again wfdfiremedic

I see you use the HCSB(Nice cross references)

I also see you listed passages in Philippians & Colossians, demonstrating how your Bible establishes the Deity of Christ.
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So I went to a favorite verse of mine.......

My Bible says.....
1 John 5:7
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

And in your Bible, this verse says.........
“7 For there are three that testify:”

Now to be fair; Your Bible does have a reference at the bottom of the page, that gives the rest of this verse.
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But the honest question that we need to answer is, “does this EFFECT the Doctrine, of the Deity Christ at all?”

With some people, maybe not, but what about others?
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
I am checking one of my 11 different versions of the KJV to see if the KJV teaches the Doctrine of the Divinity of Christ. Haven't found it yet. Care to show me?
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Ed Edwards said:
I am checking one of my 11 different versions of the KJV to see if the KJV teaches the Doctrine of the Divinity of Christ. Haven't found it yet. Care to show me?
Click to expand...

That would be in one of the KJVs, show that Phillipians 2 teaches the Doctrine of the Divinity of Christ. I can show the Holy Trinity in HCSB, nKJV, TLB, NASB, NLT and other English Versions.

BTW, a doctrine based on one and only one verse is not much of a doctrine. God repeated the best parts over and over.

Consider the metaphors/similes for Personal Salvation (for which the Sonne of God gave His life):

born again
member of the church
member of the Body of Messiah
redeemed (an O.T. concept of buying back that sold into slavery)
saved from eternal damnation
Child of the King
adopted into the family of God

that is just off the top of my head, there are many more. Our personal salvation was important enough God gave ujp His throne in Heaven to become our personal sacrifice for our personal sin. God keeps talking about it.
 
J

jonathan.borland

Active Member
preachinjesus said:
A couple of things I would enjoy to see you answer, if you have the time, specifically are the following:

1. What is your assessment of Tischendorf's success in creating textual critical solutions to support modern research?

2. How do you think Von Soden's textual theory differs from W&H in influencing modern textual research? Particularly the variation of the K-text from the Syrian text of W&H?

3. In Metzger's influential work, how do you reconcile the significant differences between the TR and more historic reconstructions, say the Nestle-Aland version? I'm also thinking of a response along the lines of how the textual variants in both play into the equation?

4. Most importantly, with the discovery of Qumran (the Dead Sea Scrolls) there has been a watershed moment for textual history, how do you see the comparisons with the TR and make up for the deficiencies in the readings?
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Do you mean these questions? No, I don't suppose you will receive adequate answers to these from stilllearning.
 
F

Forever settled in heaven

New Member
Ed Edwards said:
I am checking one of my 11 different versions of the KJV to see if the KJV teaches the Doctrine of the Divinity of Christ. Haven't found it yet. Care to show me?
Click to expand...

does this statement in the Epistle Dedicatory count?

[SIZE=+1]G[/SIZE] REAT and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the people of England, when first he sent Your Majesty's Royal Person to rule and reign over us.
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it uses capitals for "Your ... Person," which may imply divinity of some sort.

:tongue3:
 
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