Quick-and-Dirty Calvinism

If I were you...that would get me thinking at least.
I'm always thinking KJ and I said what have numbers to do with it? I stand here until proved wrong. I believe Christ died for my sins.

john.

 

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I see how that Calvinist progression would lead you to such a defensive - yet rediculous position.
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I think it is much more consistent of you to clailm that you will be like the God you claim to serve.

Your "election by genetics" of course is just you taking a wild leap off the cliff uncertain how to 'defend calvinism at all costs".

You seem torn between "Eli says I get to hate my precious child" and "genetics determines that my precious child will never have to be hated by me".

I would like to see how the "Two JohnP's" ever get together on that one.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hello Bob.

There is only one johnp and many have praised the Lord for His tender mercies.
Yet Eli is a gift to us and from his testimony we are told the answer to your rubbish and the answer to it is, "He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes." Simple as that but you will not have it but continue the nonsense of a weeping god weeping at the torture He inflicts on people.
You cannot even answer with scripture your opinion is not scripture.
As for atonement old Eli comes in pretty handy there as well as Eli proves beyond doubt that limited atonement is a fact. "1 Sam 3:14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "
You can attack me all you like but it is without scripture.

Even so he proves limited atonement and that God gives us grace to say, "He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes." And Eze 37:25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever.
A thing you said Calvin did not believe in but did and you are not man enough to admit error?

john.

 

Hmmm. Now "why" would I keep insisting that God's Word is true when it says He weeps over the lost EVEN Though Eli was so submisive to God??

Why why why?? Shouldn't I construe the statement of submissive ELI in such a way as to bend it back on the Word of God and ignore the following?

When the “unchanging God” weeps and grieves over the lost - He is not simply pretending so we will be duped into "thinking" He loves them and works for their salvation, when in fact He cares nothing at all for our children and loved ones that are “not elect”.

God’s Grieving involves tears as a parent weeps for a lost child!!

Lament over Jerusalem

God is sorrowful and GRIEVES for the lost and for the fact that He has done so much to win them - yet they TURN away.

God’s Spirit is grieved by the rebellion of His CHOSEN people His HOLY nation His ROYAL priesthood. Yes even by the LOST among them – even the worst among them.

ALL of God’s Compassion is stirred up within Him over the finally lost!

Why of course I would gladly ignore all this scripture "IF" I were an all-for-calvinism devotee of Calvinism bent on twisting some off-the-wall text about Eli as an excuse to ignore the rest of scripture!

But then - that would not be "me" would it?

Fortunately I CHOOSE to accept scripture and not wrench the texts above out of their place just because Eli said "Thy will be done" to God.

OThers -- seeking to make a mountain out of a mole hill -- will not be so careful with scripture.

IN Christ,

Bob

 

Hello Bob.

Just because Eli said that did he? Thank you!

john.

 

Well GOD said He did not delight in the death of the wicked. What say you to that???? Johnp???

 

Hello KJ.

Well there is something in His favour! That makes Him different from Hitler then does it in your mind? You do compare God to Hitler don't you?

As above KJ.

john.

 

No...I don't compare God to Hitler.

My estimation of your intelligence and willingness to "debate" the facts rather than just argue and cause trouble is rapidly falling.

 

Hello KJ.

Oh sorry I thought you did because I'm sure you asked me to compare Him with Hitler and I thought that was what you were doing.

Yea I know man. You probably started too high with me and then became disappointed, you should adjust your opinion like I did with you after your first post! HaHa!

Did I ever ask you what being cursed by God means?

Me? You sound like the missus you do. You two ought to get together.

The sentence was not well constructed.

john.

 

Words of a prating fool...I am reading Proverbs right now. Keep them comin John.

 

As for me getting with your wife...???

I no longer consider you a brother. May God have mercy on your soul.

 

I don't think he meant it the way you took it King James. Maybe that's why you're not communicating on the other stuff!

 

Maybe you're right hardsheller. If it's not how he meant it then I apologize. All I know is if I would have said that...people would have taken it the wrong way.

 

Thank you Hardsheller.

You are a gentleman.

john.

 

God does not delight in the death of the wicked. That is true, but there is no point made here. God is Glorified in the punishment of the wicked because it exalts His righteousness. God's attributes and character are VERY complex and multifaceted to say the least. It is an event though that He has ordained Chiefly for His glory, and He does what ULTIMATELY pleases Himself.

 

This is a "BIG" step for those posting in favor of Calvinism so far. I applaud this move in favor of the Bible.

The Bible says in fact - that God WEEPS over the lost!!

That ALL HIS COMPASSIONS are stirred up over their loss. That they "rejected God's PURPOSE for them". THat "HE IS NOT WILLING THAT ANY should perish"!!!

If one is determined to turn a blind eye to this aspect of God's character then NO WONDER they anticipate JOY at seeing their own precious child tormented in the flames of Rev 14:10 as SEEN by the saints (as stated by Edwards!!).

Your statement above is the first move I have seen so far in returning to a BIBLE based view of God on this topic from the Calvinist side of the Isle!!

Wrong!!

The Bible has made a HUGE Point here about the character of God!!

IT SAYS - He is a God of LOVE -- UNCHANGING - WEEPING over the Lost -- ALL His compassions stirred up over them --

It says that LOVE is that thing which REMAINS and GROWS throughout eternity instead of being ABOLISHED so that Calvinist saints can experience JOY when watching their loved ones tormented in the flames of Rev 14:10 as they SEE THEM tormented (according to the TEXT and to Johnathan Edwards).

Cavlinism paints the OPPOSITE view of God's character as compared to texts SHOWING the unchanging impartial God to WEEP over the lost!!

There is no question that fiery hell - the lake of fire, burning with fire and brimstone - tormenting the wicked as they pay the penalty for their sins IS what God's justice demands = it is what His Law demands and it IS required for a stable sin-free peaceful universe where the good of all is being wisely accomplished in infinite wisdom.

But that is VERY far from the monsterous claim that God gets JOY out of the torment!! Rather it would be much better to STAY with the scripture where we are told that the UNCHANGING God who does NOT show partiality is one who WEEPS over the lost and within whom ALL HIS COMPASSIONS as strirred up!!

IT PLEASES a parent to have obedient children and a peaceful family. That does NOT mean that the parent has JOY in causing pain to the children when necessary! Calvinism's attempt to "be god" has failed once again! Better to just accept scripture and not have to constantly redefine - re-edit- spin and twist it to meet the needs of Calvinism's wild imaginings.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Yet Calvinist would insist that God condemned them to damnation before the formation of this earth so why would he not 'delight' in said damnation? He ordained it, according to they!

 

This has never been said. Quit setting up strawmen. Your only feeding your own vanity.

God weeps, God doesn't change... oh boy Bob you've impressed me with your two verse systematic theology... please... unfortunately for you and your understanding, God is much more complex than you care to study.

You have been told by me and others that you can not misplace God's actions in different dispensations. You have further not understood the Chief Ends to which God does EVERYTHING. And that is for His Glory. This does transcend this age because of the verses that describe what we will be doing in heaven. You on the other hand are found wanting.... grasping onto a false understanding and trying to force it on people that know better. This is a broken record Bob and broken records are annoying.

 

Bob - You Wrote -

The Bible says in fact - that God WEEPS over the lost!!

Where exactly does it say that? Could you give me chapter and verse?

In fact why don't you just cut and paste the verse right in your answer for all the world to see.

 

Yet Calvinist would insist that God condemned them to damnation before the formation of this earth so why would he not 'delight' in said damnation? He ordained it, according to they! </font>[/QUOTE]Diane, This Calvinist has never said that.