Quotes from Ellen White - You Decide

[JonShaff]

Great list, and I would agree with 1, 4,5,6, and 7. It seems that 2 and 3 could be said of anyone, but the rest do distinguish a cult, and the SDA ticks every box.

My hope is that our two friends would wake up.

1 TIm. 4
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

I believe Paul gave us an easy flag.

 

[One Baptism]

Okay. Thank you. Is she the only person in the past 2,000 years to have such a gift?

I may be able to point to a few examples in history which would manifest a more localized, in time and place, prophesying, in Luther's life, in Huss', and maybe before, etc. I would have to go looking for my references of them.

However, the greater overall picture, would generally be that no one in the past 2,000 years, that I am personally aware of, manifested in such a great manner as was given to her [though there was at least two males that were offered it before her, and both ultimately rejected it], and this for several reasons, one of which deals with the Commandments, and another dealing with the phases of Jesus heavenly ministry, as the Most Holy Place was not in service [wherein was the Law and the Testimony] until October 22, 1844 [Daniel 8:13,14,26, 9:24-27, etc] and another is typological.

 

[One Baptism]

1 TIm. 4
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

I believe Paul gave us an easy flag.

What did God, in Genesis "create to be received with thanksgiving"? Nothing of the animal kingdom.

The reference in 1 Timothy 4, is to Romanism, astheticism, like "Lent" and "unmarried Pastors".

The context of 1 Timothy 4, rules out Seventh-day Adventists, and we can discuss this more later.

 

[Yeshua1]

She was indeed inspired. The Testimonies are without error, as they are not from her, they are the Testimony of Jesus to us, by the Holy Spirit, through sister White.

Sister White, in her person, never claimed infallibility, and stated that she, herself, was not infallible, and had many lessons to learn from her Teacher, Jesus Christ.

The historical materials cited, in various places are not claimed as infallible, but are used as summations of events, ie like that which is cited in the Great Controversy. Read the introduction by herself, in how she stated their uses and purpose therein.

You claim that she was inspired in the same fashion as Isaiah and Jesus and Paul?

 

[Yeshua1]

I may be able to point to a few examples in history which would manifest a more localized, in time and place, prophesying, in Luther's life, in Huss', and maybe before, etc. I would have to go looking for my references of them.

However, the greater overall picture, would generally be that no one in the past 2,000 years, that I am personally aware of, manifested in such a great manner as was given to her [though there was at least two males that were offered it before her, and both ultimately rejected it], and this for several reasons, one of which deals with the Commandments, and another dealing with the phases of Jesus heavenly ministry, as the Most Holy Place was not in service [wherein was the Law and the Testimony] until October 22, 1844 [Daniel 8:13,14,26, 9:24-27, etc].

There was NO more additional Prophecy given to us by God after John died!

 

[Yeshua1]

What did God, in Genesis "create to be received with thanksgiving"? Nothing of the animal kingdom.

The reference in 1 Timothy 4, is to Romanism, astheticism, like "Lent" and "unmarried Pastors".

The context of 1 Timothy 4, rules out Seventh-day Adventists, and we can discuss this more later.

Sda still falls under the Pauline label of holding to "another Gospel"

 

[thatbrian]

I may be able to point to a few examples in history which would manifest a more localized, in time and place, prophesying, in Luther's life, in Huss', and maybe before, etc. I would have to go looking for my references of them.

However, the greater overall picture, would generally be that no one in the past 2,000 years, that I am personally aware of, manifested in such a great manner as was given to her [though there was at least two males that were offered it before her, and both ultimately rejected it], and this for several reasons, one of which deals with the Commandments, and another dealing with the phases of Jesus heavenly ministry, as the Most Holy Place was not in service [wherein was the Law and the Testimony] until October 22, 1844 [Daniel 8:13,14,26, 9:24-27, etc].

That's what I thought you would say.

 

[JonShaff]

What did God, in Genesis "create to be received with thanksgiving"? Nothing of the animal kingdom.

The reference in 1 Timothy 4, is to Romanism, astheticism, like "Lent" and "unmmaried Pastors".

The context of 1 Timothy 4, rules out Seventh-day Adventists, and we can discuss this more later.

You guys fall into the same Category as RCC astheticism. Matter of fact, you both share similar marks of my cult list.

Both of you emphasize a law
Both of you emphasize a specific leader
both of you emphasize extra revelation outside of Scripture
both of you emphasize you are the "One True Church"
both of you emphasize the special rules
both of you Emphasize every one else being apostate
Both of you emphasize aestheticism

 

[thatbrian]

Sda still falls under the Pauline label of holding to "another Gospel"

That s true, and it is the only test I'm interested in.

 

[Yeshua1]

That's what I thought you would say.

Ellen White supplants Jesus in their church!

 

[thatbrian]

Ellen White supplants Jesus in their church!

Of course, and that is the goal.

 

[One Baptism]

You claim that she was inspired in the same fashion as Isaiah and Jesus and Paul?

There are no degrees of such inspiration among prophets. Inspiration is inspiration. I would not dare to compare the inspiration of Moses to that of Daniel, or to that of Ezekiel, or to that of Jeremiah, or to that of Hosea, Amos, Malachi or even to those mentioned that have no book in scripture; or to Peter, James or John, or Paul. Jesus came as a man. Yet He is the chief "Prophet" of them all, and the Holy Spirit was given to Him without measure. Yet, we may have the same.

 

[One Baptism]

You guys fall into the same Category as RCC astheticism. Matter of fact, you both share similar marks of my cult list.

Both of you emphasize a law
Both of you emphasize a specific leader
both of you emphasize extra revelation outside of Scripture
both of you emphasize you are the "One True Church"
both of you emphasize the special rules
both of you Emphasize every one else being apostate
Both of you emphasize aestheticism

Which must mean then, that, in obverse:

You emphasize no law, or a law of your own making [which is no law]
You emphasize a specific leader of your choosing rather than of God's choosing
You emphasize no revelation outside of scripture, and the gifts are long since dead
You emphasize there is no One True Church and to each their own
You emphasize specials rules not of God's choosing but of your own traditions
You emphasize there is no apostacy, and to each their own
You emphasize not holiness unto God in body. mind and spirit, but do what thou wilt, its all good

Or is this not so? How can you apply those merely to me, since all who claim to follow Christ Jesus have their various 'creeds', 'screeds' and 'leads' and are the true this or that?

 

[One Baptism]

Ok, I got to go move the water in the Garden, I don't want it to flood [I am supposed to dress and keep it]. I think this thread is pretty much ran its course anyways.

Thank you all. Be glad to talk more later, though Sabbath is approaching, and I must be ready to meet Jesus in it.

 

[JonShaff]

Which must mean then, that, in obverse:

You emphasize no law, or a law of your own making [which is no law]
You emphasize a specific leader of your choosing rather than of God's choosing
You emphasize no revelation outside of scripture, and the gifts are long since dead
You emphasize there is no One True Church and to each their own
You emphasize specials rules not of God's choosing but of your own traditions
You emphasize there is no apostacy, and to each their own
You emphasize not holiness unto God in body. mind and spirit, but do what thou wilt, its all good

Or is this not so? How can you apply those merely to me, since all who claim to follow Christ Jesus have their various 'creeds', 'screeds' and 'leads' and are the true this or that?

I emphasize spirit, not law.
I emphasize Christ, not man.
I emphasize Scripture, not tradition.
I emphasize Christ's Body, not sects.

 

[BobRyan]

Understood, so what's your answer?

As long as I was convinced that the Bible doctrine is correct and I already know this is the only denomination with that full set of doctrine - I would stay - just like a few million Adventists over in Europe are staying even though they have downsized their confidence in what God told Ellen White. In general among Adventists - the less they study their Bibles - the less they affirm the insights God gave Ellen White.

 

[BobRyan]

I emphasize spirit, not law.

But you also would affirm the Bible is correct in 1 John 5:2-3 "This IS the Love of God that we keep His Commandments" I assume.

And you also strongly affirm the New Covenant.

Which means we are not as far apart on that as you may have at first thought.

I emphasize Christ, not man.
I emphasize Scripture, not tradition.

 

[JonShaff]

But you also would affirm the Bible is correct in 1 John 5:2-3 "This IS the Love of God that we keep His Commandments" I assume.

And you also strongly affirm the New Covenant.

Which means we are not as far apart on that as you may have at first thought.

I emphasize Christ, not man.
I emphasize Scripture, not tradition.

What are Christ's commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

And people want me to treat them like they are just another "denomination". Ya. Right.

Sure -- just like you could take the time to actually read Walter Martin's chapter about SDAs and are a Christian interested in Bible study.

 

[BobRyan]

What are Christ's commandments?

Which ones do you think Jeremiah was speaking of in Jer 31:31-33 in his writing about the NEW Covenant?

Before the cross Christ said "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
He is the one speaking at Sinai according to Hebrews 8:6-10 and in Exodus 20:6 He also said "Love Me and Keep My Commandments"

In Matt 19 we have Christ saying "Keep the Commandments" and then getting asked "which ones".

16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness, Ex 20
19 Honour your father and mother, Ex 20
and, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” Lev 19:18

(Jesus does not list "Do not take God's name in vain" -- because it is in the list of commandments dealing with man's duty to God)

Paul gives that same list - almost verbatim in Romans 13 - after the cross. no change.

Christ also says to the Jews that the two commandments that serve as the bedrock foundation for all of scripture are
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
Lev 19:18 "Love our neighbor as yourself"

Jesus is not the "destroyer of scripture" -- He is the "author of it"

Notice what happens in Mark 7 when attempts are made to downsize/edit the commandments of God

Mark 7

6 And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,
“‘This people honours me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
7 in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”
9 And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
10 For Moses said, ‘Honour your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’
11 But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God)—
12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,
13 thus making void the Word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Commandment of God = Word of God = Moses said

2 Tim 3:16 is right after all.