"Racially insensitive" remarks by sports figures

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
How many murders do you think there were in 2003? There were 16,503, or approximately 5.7/100,000 US inhabitants. This number has nothing to do with prosecution either.

Let's look at murder offenders...

*total white offenders- 5,132
*total black offenders- 5,729
*total other offenders- 308
*total unknown offenders- 4,874

murder victims....

*total white victims- 6,193
*total black victims- 6,887
*total other victims- 408
*total unknown victims- 200

And this is a product of...?

By your own stats, blacks are only 3 times more to be in poverty than whites. They are much more likely however to have been the victim of murder or to have murdered. Again why?

Murder is moral. Morality is culturally/socially derived.

Many of these victims/criminals come from single parent homes. Again a function of morality. Again, a culturally influenced behavior.

The attitudes of middle class blacks that can afford the illegitimate child or might tend to abortion has a direct impact on the societal/cultural acceptance of promiscuous behavior. Take away the middle class kids white or black that listen to demeaning music and it will quickly become unavailable.

If the middle class kids that you wouldn't classify as directly part of this subculture wouldn't buy the gangster style of dress and music... then it goes away. If these parents say "NO" my kid isn't going to identify with that element in any action or attitude... then it will diminish.
BTW, according to the stats you provided, the murder rate amongst blacks is about 15 per 100K. All others are something on the order of 4.5 per 100K... and that's assuming that none of the "unknowns" are black which is highly unrealistic. This number could be as low as 3 per 100k... which is better than the German and French numbers that the gun control folks like to cite. BTW, if I remember the statistics correctly, whites are more likely than blacks to own a gun.

But most importantly, you have chased every rabbit down every trail now and still haven't answered the fundamental question. What ultimately causes blacks to be more promiscuous/violent/criminal etc.?

I don't think it is race. I agree that most black people do not directly subscribe to this part of their culture and many directly oppose it. None the less, I don't think there is any way that you can say that these problems will decline unless there is a cultural/social change in the attitudes in the black community toward these various behaviors. The one that seems to link them all together is sexual promiscuity that often results in illegitimacy/one parent homes.

 

[Filmproducer]

The average person living under the US poverty line has not gone without food in the past year, does not lack for clothes, owns a car, owns a home, owns a refrigerator... a microwave, more than one tv with cable, and can access necessary health care.

Actually, I have to disagree with this. I have worked with countless single black mothers who do not have all of these luxuries. Definitely no cable, or car. A lot of these families do go without food sometimes, and the adults do not have access to health care. A very dear friend of ours lived in a similar situation. She is like a second mother to my husband, and I have grown to love her the same. She has 9 children. She and her husband lived in NYC, but after her husband was killed, by the police, in a case of mistaken identity she moved her family to Orlando. She is from Jamaica and she is proud despite her circumstance. Before her husband's death they were "middle class", and he was the sole bread winner. Her situation changed overnight and she is dirt poor. She refuses to accept any type of assistance, and she works on average 15 hours a day to support her kids. She cannot afford health care. She relented and applied for Medicaid for her kids. She refuses to apply for herself. She once worked while she had pneumonia. Hers is not a single story. Like I said I have met many women in her same circumstance. Yes, some poor do have these amenities, but certainly not all, and based on my experience not the majority. There are some clean black comedians who have jokes about this type of stuff. Have you ever heard of syrup sandwiches or mayonnaise sandwiches, it is in reference to not having food to last all month until payday, etc.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
You and I have had what I think is a fruitful discussion. There is no need to be condescending now.

Sorry, it was not meant to be condescending. It was based entirely on this comment, "Really? When did their position change? When did they stop demanding more federal social programs? When did they stop playing class and race warfare?".

I also believe the discussion was fruitful. It is just time consuming to reply to.

You know. In all this, I have forgotten to say something.

I appreciate your courage, character, and compassion. The link in your profile provided some good info. I respect your stand and ministry as well as the courage it often takes to marry someone that you love and are devoted to... even if there is societal resistance due to prejudice.

It was based entirely on my belief that it is not an overall black culture. I agree some subsets of black culture are morally inept, but not the overall black culture.

I hope you saw my explanation... and maybe a misunderstanding has been our primary source of disagreement. When I say "overall black culture", it's in the same sense as I might say "southern Appalachian culture" which I come from or "American culture".

Not all hillbillies look or behave like the inbreds in "Deliverance". In fact, a very small minority come close to the sterotype often promoted by these "save the children" types of broadcasts. I grew up in a county that routinely has the highest unemployment in NC... but I never knew anyone who was one meal away from starvation.

I'm sorry that I assumed you have not worked with black youth. I have also worked with inner city black youth, as well as other areas in the black community

My kids were just small town.

These are things I have thought long and hard about, not that you haven't.

I have thought about it because I care. Please know that nothing I have written is with any guile at all. I am frustrated by these problems because people are suffering. But my frustration is exacerbated when folks like Sharpton and Jackson imply that the problems are because I have a job or because my taxes aren't high enough... or my fault (as a white man) for some other reason.

I care for blacks with these problems like I care for my wayward niece. My in-laws raised her. She was illegitimate... and they spoiled her. They wouldn't tell her 'no' and won't even now when she is 22. She won't work and demands money and gifts from them.

She doesn't need more handouts. She needs to be told that her lesbian relationship and recreational habits are immoral and won't be supported any more. She needs to be told that she either works or don't eat. She needs to be told that she is responsible for her own vehicle and insurance.

Education? She's already scammed those programs. Her problem isn't opportunity... it's motivation. She has someone to facilitate her immoral, self-destructive behavior. I see her is an example of whites and blacks at that end of the spectrum... as we have agreed, blacks are simply more frequent.

BTW, yes... I think there is a cultural, social component to my niece's problems. "Trailor trash" is probably the nicest way of saying it. Her mother met her father while he was on work release. I have never known any other person- white, black, or other... lower than my sister-in-law. She did it to herself with her moral choices.

Oh... and she has scammed every gov't program there is... currently she is drawing SSI due to being "bipolar". Truth is, she is a burn out.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
The average person living under the US poverty line has not gone without food in the past year, does not lack for clothes, owns a car, owns a home, owns a refrigerator... a microwave, more than one tv with cable, and can access necessary health care.

Actually, I have to disagree with this.

My memory failed me on at least one thing but I was talking about the "average" person... not all.

Here is a more detailed analysis:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

 

[Scott J]

BTW, will the lady you mentioned take any kind of help at all?

I have been blessed and would very much like to keep her in mind if an opportunity presents itself.

It is also my opinion that this represents a failure of the church. Churches, not the government, should be taking care of the needs of this family. It should be a primary function for deacons.

 

[Filmproducer]

By your own stats, blacks are only 3 times more to be in poverty than whites. They are much more likely however to have been the victim of murder or to have murdered. Again why?

It is socioeconomic status. Most crimes happen in low socioeconomic areas. Most crimes prosecuted are from low income urban areas. It is poverty and the feelings that go along with it. Is it right, no, and I am not justifying it. I just do not believe poverty is a symptom of culture. There are poor, hardworking people out there who are not able to make it out of their circumstance, and it is definitely not for lack of trying. Yes, there are people who are just lazy who are poor, but not the majority. We live in a capitalist society not everyone can be middle or upper class. Those who live in poverty, like you said, are more likely to be depressed to use drugs and alcohol to chase away their problems, etc. IMO, it is poverty and the symptoms that accompany it that are major contributors to this problem, not culture. Remember, only 7.5 million black Americans are living below the poverty line, but the majority, not all, of the social ills in the community can be attributed to them.

 

[Filmproducer]

I appreciate your courage, character, and compassion. The link in your profile provided some good info. I respect your stand and ministry as well as the courage it often takes to marry someone that you love and are devoted to... even if there is societal resistance due to prejudice.

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

I hope you saw my explanation... and maybe a misunderstanding has been our primary source of disagreement. When I say "overall black culture", it's in the same sense as I might say "southern Appalachian culture" which I come from or "American culture".

Not all hillbillies look or behave like the inbreds in "Deliverance". In fact, a very small minority come close to the sterotype often promoted by these "save the children" types of broadcasts. I grew up in a county that routinely has the highest unemployment in NC... but I never knew anyone who was one meal away from starvation.

You know, I think misunderstanding has been our biggest disagreement.

I think I now see where you are coming from, and I agree to an extent about overall black culture. I am still of the opinion that black culture is not necessarily defined by rebellion, gang violence, etc., though.

BTW, will the lady you mentioned take any kind of help at all?

Sometimes I wish she would. She is such a dear woman. She does everything for kids, and does nothing for herself. We have tried to help her on several occasions, but were turned down. Her reply is always the same "There are others who are worse off then me, God always provides, especially when I least expect it". She is definitely someone I look up to.

It is also my opinion that this represents a failure of the church. Churches, not the government, should be taking care of the needs of this family. It should be a primary function for deacons.

I agree 100%. The really sad thing, though, is that many of the black churches in lower income areas are just as bad off as a lot of their members. I know of some churches who do what they can, but it is hard when some members don't tithe and others tithes are so small that they don't amount to much. What really burns me is churches in low income areas, black or white, which can help, but don't.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Anecdotal: I have researched crime statistics for great numbers of cities of different sized across the US.

The higher the black population, the higher the overall crime rate, generally speaking.

However, if you break it down, higher black percentages increases robberies, murders, etc.

Higher white populations increase assaults and rapes.

As a tendency.

However, it seems to be a cultural thing and not a racial thing, as there are glaring examples of the opposite being true.

Thoughts or opinions as to cause?

BTW, I found one town with a 30%+ unemployment rate that had a 7 crime rate (national average 327). This seems to support culture more than economics, as well.

 

[robycop3]

I agree, they need MOTIVATION, black, white, Hispanic, or any other. A month in some 3rd-world rat hole of a jail, with no TV, radio, newspaper, or anyone to talk to would be a BIG motivator, for most of'em to not wanna go back...if it was made clear to them that their NEXT sojourn would be FAR longer.

We are trying to use New-Age-Liberal psychology on these young punks-in-training insteada PUNISHING them, with the promise that MUCH-WORSE punishment was in store for them if they break the law again.

The ideal situation would be that they not be allowed any visitor besides a preacher of their choice, but the New-Age-Liberals would never stand for that, what with their "Freedom FROM Religion" attitudes.

 

[robycop3]

In my BC days, I did a little stand-up comedy ala Carlin-Pryor. Racial & cultural jokes were part of it. However, I used the term "Slobbovian" to refer to a given race, culture, or nationality.

Pryor was often criticized by other blacks for his frequent use of a certain 6-letter word I.E. his album Bicentennial ******.

One national performer who frequently uses racial slurs is singer-songwriter David Allen Coe, who's white.(At least I THINK he is, under all his tats!) He recorded one of the raunchiest racial songs ever to be put on recording media, a song that mages frequent of that 6-letter word as well as the "F" word and many other scatologies. He recently performed in Huntington, WV, and I was told that over half the audience was black...and that they actually SANG ALONG, laughing the whole time! Wonder if a black performer woulda gotten such a response from a white audience if he sang a song fulla racial slurs against whites?

 

[robycop3]

I remember, when I was a youngster in Cinyy, Dad telling me about the first time Jackie Robinson played against the reds at Crosley Field. In those days, many of the Cincy fans were from Kentucky, and from a redneck racially-biased area at that. Dad said when the Dodgers took the field, Pee Wee Reese, a Kentuckian, dearly loved by those Reds fans, walked out with his arm around Jackie, sending the message that "This is my TEAMMATE; if ya don't like HIM, ya don't like ME". The fans got the message, and it wasn't too much longer before another black Robinson-FRANK-played for the Reds, and quickly became the darling of the Reds' fans.