Rain on the "Just" and "Unjust" ?

[jbh28]

Don't post Scriptures like this Winman...

There is a certain unnamed Calvinist Mod who will ban you for directly quoting God's Word in this manner....I've already been snipped and given the warning for this heretical "Bible-Speak" you are using here.

There is no one here that will ban you for "directly quoting God's word" What will get you banned is comments like this. Read this if you want to know what will get you banned. Quoting Scripture will not.

 

[Winman]

Meh....you survive because of your peaceability. You are a peaceful and non-confrontational sort of man....That's why you survive...don't worry...the first time you get nixed by unnamed Calvinist mods and you react by doubling-down on the truth of Scripture........

They will crush the Scriptural truths you speak by brute force.

Calvinism has only and ALWAYS appealed to "brute-force" in order to grant itself preeminence... it is no different on B.B.
Various Calvinists will utilize "power" (never reason) to silence the voices of those with whom they disagree.

See how often they scream for "Mod" intervention vs. us Arminians:

Calvin guaranteed the preeminence of his system by force, persecution, power and blood.
The Mods on B.B. are no different.

Oh, I am not so peaceful, I just know what I can say and what I can't.

Boy, are you right about the Calvinists though (generally speaking), they can call you heretic, Pelagian, and imply repeatedly that you are not saved (Iconoclast's personal specialty) and nothing ever happens. They have done this to me probably hundreds of times over the last four years. Of course, I am not intimidated by their words and never complain to the Mods.

But the few times I have gone a little over the line with them, usually after they have provoked me with insults, they boo hoo to the Mods. I have received infractions at least 11 times, almost all for "Insulted Other Member".

These guys don't even know a good insult, I grew up surfing, there is nobody more obnoxious than a group of surfers. I haven't even began to insult these guys. If I really pulled out the heavy artillery, some of these guys would probably try to hunt me down and shoot me. :laugh:

Bunch of crybabies.

 

[Inspector Javert]

I do not know where you get the imbalance of Calvinists and non Calvinists in board discipline. I will be glad to send you a list of my infractions.

"Infractions" are meaningless and toothless. Everyone should know this.

Calvinist Mods will habitually snip and ban posters who have arguments against Calvinism they don't care for.

They like FORCE...it's fundamental, and ingrained in the Calvinist system...it's the fundamental attribute of God with which they most immediately identify, and it is subsequently the attribute they hold most dear.

IMO...it's the most normatively weak and impotent sort of man who latches onto that system, you are excluded of course... (often due to perceived failings real or imagined) within themselves which makes them desire to latch onto it.

I believe that other-wise weak and impotent sort of men are drawn towards Calvinism...and also the idea of being moderators on Theological forums such that they might utilize the limited and impotent "force" that they have in order to verify their weak an un-supported manhood.

 

[Winman]

theres nothing to be dishonest about. Just like Adoniram Judson, William Carey, Charles Spurgeon, Luther Rice, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield, John Eliot, John Patton nor David Brainerd were being dishonest when they spoke to the lost. We give the the gospel. Anyone that believes will be saved.

Of course, they neglect to tell their hearers that many of them cannot believe. Now, that is what they truly believe, but they will not tell them that until they have already believed. Then they tell the person that believed they had to be regenerated to believe.

It could be accepted if the person wanted to accept it. The problem is the person rejecting God's offer of salvation. Besides, all people deserve hell. Everyone one of us. So God has every right to create people and not offer salvation to anyone. We don't deserve salvation nor the chance to be saved.

Double talk. Fact is, the Philipian jailer refutes what you believe. He could not possibly have been regenerated, because he had not yet believed (you believe that regeneration and faith occur at the same moment), yet he had a sincere desire to be saved. Cornelius was also not regenerated, not knowing the gospel, and yet he feared God, prayed always, and gave much alms to the people. God was so pleased with Cornelius he sent an angel to tell him to send for Peter where he would hear the gospel and believe. Cornelius was still unregenerated at this time, and yet he obeyed God.

If God never offered salvation, we would still all deserve hell. John 3:18 says that because a person doesn't believe, he is already condemned. We deserve God's wrath because we are sinners. It's by God's love and mercy that he saved anyone. No one deserved the chance to be saved. It's not something God was obligated to offer.

The problem here is that the scriptures plainly say God is no respecter of persons. If all men are equally sinners, then God should either save all men, or allow all men to perish. To save only some is to be a respecter of persons.

Calvinism is just plain error.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Oh, I am not so peaceful, I just know what I can say and what I can't.

Boy, are you right about the Calvinists though (generally speaking), they can call you heretic, Pelagian, and imply repeatedly that you are not saved (Iconoclast's personal specialty) and nothing ever happens. They have done this to me probably hundreds of times over the last four years. Of course, I am not intimidated by their words and never complain to the Mods.

LIAR!! Icon does NOT specialize in calling people "unsaved"....he just..ya know..states that those who are in fact "saved" and therefore identified with Christ will agree with his views, so that those who don't are.......................................................................................................................uh, well, not precisely under the influence of the Holy Spirit such as he is.... But, He'll NEVER have the forth-rightness to honestly "SAY" you aren't "saved".....

But the few times I have gone a little over the line with them, usually after they have provoked me with insults, they boo hoo to the Mods. I have received infractions at least 11 times, almost all for "Insulted Other Member".

The Cals on B.B. LOVE to cry to the "Mods"......after all.....the bulk of the mods are indeed obvious Calvinists just as they are.

These guys don't even know a good insult, I grew up surfing, there is nobody more obnoxious than a group of surfers. I haven't even began to insult these guys. If I really pulled out the heavy artillery, some of these guys would probably try to hunt me down and shoot me. :laugh:

They won't do that...............you're already un-saved in their perverted thinking. They just warm themselves to the idea that you will spend a non-elect eternity in Hell. Trust me....They WARM themselves and COMFORT themselves to the thought of you burning in hell.

Bunch of crybabies.

Yes, but, the most immasculated ones amongst their ranks are the most vehement Calvinists, and that includes (IMO) some of the erudite "moderators" on this forum.

 

[DrJamesAch]

.

theres nothing to be dishonest about. Just like Adoniram Judson, William Carey, Charles Spurgeon, Luther Rice, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield, John Eliot, John Patton nor David Brainerd were being dishonest when they spoke to the lost. We give the the gospel. Anyone that believes will be saved.

Do tell when the last time any of those men gave out the gospel! First of all, Calvinists often resort to evangelistic ministers from HUNDREDS of years ago to attempt validation of their current styled churches. Not all of these men were consistent Calvinists and often contradicted themselves FREQUENTLY on issues such as free will, the offer of the gospel, and limited atonement. (Not sure which of Calvin's beliefs applied to Jonathan Edwards ownership of slaves, but that's another matter

But again, these men, just as Calvinist churches today, are preaching one message to the lost, and another message to their church members.

It could be accepted if the person wanted to accept it. The problem is the person rejecting God's offer of salvation. Besides, all people deserve hell. Everyone one of us. So God has every right to create people and not offer salvation to anyone. We don't deserve salvation nor the chance to be saved

.

Do you see the contradictory logic in your own reasoning?? "It could be accepted if the person WANTED TO ACCEPT IT" vs "God has every right to create people and NOT OFFER salvation to anyone". That is a BLATANT contradiction that is typical of Calvinist double-speak.

The Arminian nor average Non Calvinist believes that ANY sinner or saved person deserves heaven and does not or did not deserve hell. That is not the issue. The issue is God WANTED to condemn a person by a DECREED, PRE DETERMINED (meaning before the sinner was even born) WILL TO CONDEMN THE PERSON TO AN ETERNALLY IN HELL.

No person can "accept the offer IF HE WANTS TO" and be PREDETERMINED to be damned AT THE SAME TIME. That is a wholly inconsistent statement and an outright contradiction.

If God never offered salvation, we would still all deserve hell. John 3:18 says that because a person doesn't believe, he is already condemned. We deserve God's wrath because we are sinners. It's by God's love and mercy that he saved anyone. No one deserved the chance to be saved. It's not something God was obligated to offer

But the offer of salvation was the remedy that God provided FOR ALL to avoid what we justly deserve as sinners. The difference is is that such offer is NOT offered to all. The argument is not whether God was obligated to offer anything, it is in HOW it is offered where Calvinism defies the very nature of God and is at odds with Scripture. God can not be a perfect loving God if He DESIRED and WANTED the damnation of humans before they were even born. You are continuing to miss the point about the difference between what we DESERVE as sinners, and what God WANTS and DESIRES of the sinner before they were ever created. There is a difference in God punishing sin because it is deserved when He has given man an offer to avoid it, from God planning ahead of time to never offer a remedy, and simply planning ahead of time to condemn a sinner simply because He can, and because He WANTS TO.

As stated above, Calvinists offer one message to the unsaved, and another to their members about the nature of salvation. The Calvinists consistently use rhetoric to gain converts that they DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEIR THEOLOGY

 

[Winman]

"Infractions" are meaningless and toothless. Everyone should know this.

Calvinist Mods will habitually snip and ban posters who have arguments against Calvinism they don't care for.

They like FORCE...it's fundamental, and ingrained in the Calvinist system...it's the fundamental attribute of God with which they most immediately identify, and it is subsequently the attribute they hold most dear.

IMO...it's the most normatively weak and impotent sort of man who latches onto that system, you are excluded of course... (often due to perceived failings real or imagined) within themselves which makes them desire to latch onto it.

I believe that other-wise weak and impotent sort of men are drawn towards Calvinism...and also the idea of being moderators on Theological forums such that they might utilize the limited and impotent "force" that they have in order to verify their weak an un-supported manhood.

Yeah, it's like abusive cops, most of these guys got their butts beat in school by everybody, so they become a cop so they can push people around. I know two guys that perfectly fit this mold, and both were kicked off the force for being abusive to people.

That said, there are many good and decent police officers. I am talking about the ones that like to beat on people.

 

[Inspector Javert]

There is no one here that will ban you for "directly quoting God's word" What will get you banned is comments like this. Read this if you want to know what will get you banned. Quoting Scripture will not.

JBH...you are so innocent and untainted in your thinking that I wouldn't want to despoil you with the truth...

Trust me.................one can submit COMPLETE ORTHODOXY and perish under the loving care of the Calvinist moderators on this forum...

Pelagius was deemed a "heretic" (in abstentia) with a written letter and "gift" of 80 Numidian Stallions to the Emperor of Rome who deemed him a "heretic"....

That's fact.

I'm pretty sure that if the Word of God and his own writings weren't sufficient to protect Pelagius from the brutal force of Calvinism....than the Word of God and my own writings won't protect ME from the brutal force of Calvinist persecution either.

The Calvinist Mods on this forum don't care a fig for the "rules" you linked to...they care about silencing voices with whom they disagree.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Yeah, it's like abusive cops, most of these guys got their butts beat in school by everybody, so they become a cop so they can push people around. I know two guys that perfectly fit this mold, and both were kicked off the force for being abusive to people.

That said, there are many good and decent police officers. I am talking about the ones that like to beat on people.

GAME.........SET........MATCH..!!!!!

That's the Psychology of Many an immasculated Calvinist.

There are quite a few WONDERFUL, GOOD and DECENT men who are Calvinists...and some are on this board too!!!(Jbh included):jesus:

None of them are "moderators" though.

 

[Inspector Javert]

OH..........B.T.W: any Calvie here want to "double-down" on your "rain on the just and unjust" version of God's "love" vis-à-vis the O.P?

Any comment on the O.P. by the Calvinist?....What's your response?

 

[Mexdeaf]

OH..........B.T.W: any Calvie here want to "double-down" on your "rain on the just and unjust" version of God's "love" vis-à-vis the O.P?

Any comment on the O.P. by the Calvinist?....What's your response?

You don't care to respond to the D.A. Carson post which answered your query, either.

 

[Inspector Javert]

You don't care to respond to the D.A. Carson post which answered your query, either.

I perused it...but only in passing...I got disinterested very quickly.

I'm not interested in D.A Carson, to be honest with you, I'm interested in what YOU have to say to my O.P. Mex.

EVERYTHING I posted was from my OWN MIND and my own thinking....
I should assume that there are reasonable answers to EVERY (non-loaded) question I raised and a reasoned rejoinder to my O.P.

I don't care what Carson thinks...I have spent YEARS considering, thinking about, studying and meditating on the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism, so I don't want "Carson" Mex....I want YOU!

I have thought through every question I posed in my O.P....and I have studied history (enough) such that I might place my theoretical prostitute precisely in between an era of Hindu Monarchical rule and an imperfect Muslim conquest rule which was Ottoman and remarkably tolerant....

I didn't want to say 1,000 a.d.....I wanted 900 a.d. just like I said.
I perused Carson...but, frankly, he wasn't answering my questions....

MY questions are MINE, not anothers...

I would like to hear from YOU....(not Carson).....because he was absolutely NOT answering my questions as I posed them.

 

[quantumfaith]

Why don't you forget D.A. Carson and answer the O.P. you've been presented with?

Don't worry...an unnamed Calvinist Mod will ban me for being an un-apologetic and un-intimidated non-Calvinist quite soon...but why don't YOU offer an explanation?

I'm pretty sure Carson has no rejoinder for the O.P. I've already presented.
Why don't you speak for yourself Mex...I did.
Please explain for us why our Prostitute who has reveled in, and enjoyed God's "love"..........is an apt example of the notion of "love" as you understand it.

Inspector, I applaud your openness, vulnerability and downright HONESTY.

 

[quantumfaith]

When you first started posting, I thought you had some common sense. That has radically changed. Your posts are disrespectful to God, the Arminian side, the Calvinist side, and to Christians in general. Aren't you the one that called God a "love sick fool?" That is more than enough for banishment right there. And you had the gall to call me the names you did in a PM with relation to the Jewish faith? Do you talk like this at home and at work, if you have a job?

Saturn, I think you might misinterpret the rough edges and passion of the inspector. I think his picture of a "love sick fool" was not a declaratory pronouncement, rather a visceral response to address issues he interpreted in the thread. But if I am wrong...He will correct my observation.

 

[DrJamesAch]

I perused it...but only in passing...I got disinterested very quickly.

I'm not interested in D.A Carson, to be honest with you, I'm interested in what YOU have to say to my O.P. Mex.

EVERYTHING I posted was from my OWN MIND and my own thinking....
I should assume that there are reasonable answers to EVERY (non-loaded) question I raised and a reasoned rejoinder to my O.P.

I don't care what Carson thinks...I have spent YEARS considering, thinking about, studying and meditating on the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism, so I don't want "Carson" Mex....I want YOU!

I have thought through every question I posed in my O.P....and I have studied history (enough) such that I might place my theoretical prostitute precisely in between an era of Hindu Monarchical rule and an imperfect Muslim conquest rule which was Ottoman and remarkably tolerant....

I didn't want to say 1,000 a.d.....I wanted 900 a.d. just like I said.
I perused Carson...but, frankly, he wasn't answering my questions....

MY questions are MINE, not anothers...

I would like to hear from YOU....(not Carson).....because he was absolutely NOT answering my questions as I posed them.

I, however, DID answer the post about Carson And showed that not only did it not affect the OP, but actually SUPPORTED the accusations of the OP.

Post 7

Post 14

and

Post 26

 

[jbh28]

The problem here is that the scriptures plainly say God is no respecter of persons. If all men are equally sinners, then God should either save all men, or allow all men to perish. To save only some is to be a respecter of persons.

Calvinism is just plain error.

And God only saves some me. Only a universalist would disagree with that.

 

[jbh28]

Do tell when the last time any of those men gave out the gospel! First of all, Calvinists often resort to evangelistic ministers from HUNDREDS of years ago to attempt validation of their current styled churches. Not all of these men were consistent Calvinists and often contradicted themselves FREQUENTLY on issues such as free will, the offer of the gospel, and limited atonement. (Not sure which of Calvin's beliefs applied to Jonathan Edwards ownership of slaves, but that's another matter

They didn't contradict themselves. I only mentioned them because of our accusation of "dishonest."

But again, these men, just as Calvinist churches today, are preaching one message to the lost, and another message to their church members.

Again, not true. Not at all.

.

Do you see the contradictory logic in your own reasoning?? "It could be accepted if the person WANTED TO ACCEPT IT" vs "God has every right to create people and NOT OFFER salvation to anyone". That is a BLATANT contradiction that is typical of Calvinist double-speak.[/quote]It's not a contradictions at all. You must not have read it correctly.
1. Salvation is offered to all. Anyone that wants to accept it will.
2. Go didn't have to offer salvation. He didn't have to offer it to anyone.

I'm not sure how that's a contradiction to say something was offered but didn't have to be.

The Arminian nor average Non Calvinist believes that ANY sinner or saved person deserves heaven and does not or did not deserve hell. That is not the issue. The issue is God WANTED to condemn a person by a DECREED, PRE DETERMINED (meaning before the sinner was even born) WILL TO CONDEMN THE PERSON TO AN ETERNALLY IN HELL.

But that is the issue. Does man deserve hell? Yes. So if God didn't offer him salvation he would go to hell for his sins. People go to hell because they are sinners. Because God has offered salvation and they reject this salvation, they go to hell because they are sinners. so if God decreed to create people and not offer them salvation, they would go to hell because of their sins. I don't believe he did this, but the truth is still the same. ALL people that go to hell deserve to go because of their sin, regardless if God offers salvation or not.

No person can "accept the offer IF HE WANTS TO" and be PREDETERMINED to be damned AT THE SAME TIME. That is a wholly inconsistent statement and an outright contradiction.

Not a contradiction at all. It shows your misunderstanding of election. God doesn't reject anyone that wants to be saved.

But the offer of salvation was the remedy that God provided FOR ALL to avoid what we justly deserve as sinners. The difference is is that such offer is NOT offered to all.

I would disagree. It is offered to all. Some men reject this offer and thus have to spend eternity in hell.

The argument is not whether God was obligated to offer anything, it is in HOW it is offered where Calvinism defies the very nature of God and is at odds with Scripture. God can not be a perfect loving God if He DESIRED and WANTED the damnation of humans before they were even born.

Again, damnation of humans is something that is deserved. God can be a perfect loving God if he wanted to create people that would sin against him and he would send them to hell because of their sin and never offer a way of salvation.

You are continuing to miss the point about the difference between what we DESERVE as sinners, and what God WANTS and DESIRES of the sinner before they were ever created.

God wants and desires men to obey him.

There is a difference in God punishing sin because it is deserved when He has given man an offer to avoid it, from God planning ahead of time to never offer a remedy, and simply planning ahead of time to condemn a sinner simply because He can, and because He WANTS TO.

No one here disagrees with God punishing sin because it is deserved. ALL people that go to hell go because they deserve it. God does not have to offer a remedy for man to deserve hell. No one believes that God predetermined to send innocent people to hell, but only to send guilty people to hell. Your statements look like you believe that people believe that God predetermines to send innocent people to hell, that's not the case.

As stated above, Calvinists offer one message to the unsaved, and another to their members about the nature of salvation. The Calvinists consistently use rhetoric to gain converts that they DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEIR THEOLOGY

Again, a false statement to your brothers in Christ. I teach what the Bible teaches.

 

[Thousand Hills]

When you first started posting, I thought you had some common sense. That has radically changed. Your posts are disrespectful to God, the Arminian side, the Calvinist side, and to Christians in general. Aren't you the one that called God a "love sick fool?" That is more than enough for banishment right there. And you had the gall to call me the names you did in a PM with relation to the Jewish faith? Do you talk like this at home and at work, if you have a job?

SN, no worries, I'm sure he will be banned (again) soon enough and rightly so. Inspector Javert = HeirofSalvation, just look at some of his posts, pull up both profiles, notice his friends, etc. I'm sure I'll be called a few names for pointing this out, but this guy's temper is so bad he just gives all of BB a bad image.

 

[Iconoclast]

Mt5:45 does not speak to the love of God, but rather the goodness of God meant to lead men to repentance.

 

[DrJamesAch]

They didn't contradict themselves. I only mentioned them because of our accusation of "dishonest."

Again, not true. Not at all.

.
.

I'll make this real simple.

Do you believe that God loves everybody, including the sinner/unsaved?

If you were to witness to sinner/unsaved, do you tell them that God loves them, and if so, what verses in the Bible to you use to tell them that God loves them.