saturneptune
New Member
Exactly what I said. Whoever this is in real life, they just do not get it.
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Rain on the "Just" and "Unjust" ?
- Thread starter Inspector Javert
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Exactly what I said. Whoever this is in real life, they just do not get it.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Exactly. He's a Doctor or does he just play one on the www?
His theology is a train wreck. His alleged doctorate needs revoked immediately if not sooner.
saturneptune
New Member
DrJamesAch
New Member
This is sheer FREEMASONRY and ROMAN CATHOLIC RACISM heresy from which Calvinism derived. Since you and a few others want to make every mention of Israel into a "JUDIAZER" issue, then lets include the origins of the Roman Catholic and Masonic influence on Calvinism.
Find any statement by me that says Israel or its remnant is equal to the church?????? You cannot! So why keep charging me with something I repudiate, reject and do not believe.
Both Israel and its remnant are PHYSICAL JEWS not gentiles. Israel does not equal church. Remnant jews were and are members of New Testament churches (Paul, the twelve, etc.) but the church is not Israel.
Romans 9:24 distinguishes between Israelites and Gentile believers in God's purpose of redemption.
DrJamesAch
New Member
Since this is all about "JUDAISM" and "ZIONISM" lets talk about how the Calvinist view of the church and Israel was used to promote apartheid in Afrika to exploit slaves under Calvinist churches from Calvinist Freemason pastors (Anderson being the chief offender) and even bragged about God preordaining their prosperity over the Africans.
By the way, just how many slaves did Jonathon Edwards own??
By the way, just how many slaves did Jonathon Edwards own??
saturneptune
New Member
Since neither I nor others are on this thread are Masons, who cares?
God's eternal purpose of salvation (Rom. 8:28-30) incorporates God's promise to Israel, physical Israel from the physical loins of Abraham as well as the seed from Gentile nations promised to Abraham. They are not one and the same. They are not Israel! They are the elect of God taken from the natural olive tree AND the wild olive tree. God's purpose for Israel is not deminished but only delayed while it is temporarly set aside while God calls a people out of the gentiles but soon all the Gentile elect shall come in (Rom. 11:25) and he will turn again to what he "cut off" and graft "again" into the natural olive tree that which he cut off and "ALL ISRAEL" physical national literal seed from the physical loins of Abraham will be saved according to election - Rom. 11;25-28.
The "church" refers the institutional local visible body of baptized believers and is not to be confused with either the Family of God (Eph. 3:15) or the "kingdom" of God.
If it is necessary, then even God cannot prevent it.
We are not talking about heaven, we are talking about the world we live in now (or at least I am).
Yes you are. Your view says that sin is NOT necessary. That is YOUR view. My view says sin IS necessary.
Your view makes God to be a liar. He tells everyone he does not want sin, and in your view, sin is NOT necessary, yet God allows sin. Therefore God appears to desire sin after all. He must desire sin if it is not necessary but he allows it.
I believe sin is NECESSARY. God doesn't want it as he says, but he cannot prevent it, it MUST happen. HUGE difference from your view.
Your view does have God divided against himself. In your view sin is NOT necessary. God says he does not want sin, but allows sin anyway. God is divided against himself.
In my view sin is NECESSARY. God cannot prevent it. God doesn't want sin, but it MUST happen. God is not divided against himself. Again, huge difference that you seem unable to grasp.
It is not that God desires we have a choice, by necessity he MUST give us choice. He is a God of love and cannot force us, that would be against his nature and is impossible for him to do. That is why sin is NECESSARY. Again, you are unable to grasp this simple truth.
God cannot prevent sin, it MUST happen. God by his nature MUST allow us choice, which makes sin NECESSARY. I'm gonna keep saying it, hopefully someday you will GET IT.
No, we know from the scriptures there will not be sin in heaven. But men have made their choice HERE in this life whether they want to be holy or not.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
It is this life where you decide what your nature will be in the next life. If you choose Jesus, then your spirit is joined to the Holy Spirit and becomes one spirit. (1 Cor 6:17) Now we are partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4). At the resurrection we receive incorruptible bodies (1 Cor 15:50-54). You will never have the desire to sin again.
Your view is a contradiction and makes God to appear to be a liar. You say God hates sin, and God could make a world without sin, yet God allows sin. This is a contradiction and makes God appear to be a liar.
My view is different because I say sin is NECESSARY. God doesn't want sin just as he said, but he MUST allow choice (because that is his nature) and therefore men are enabled to sin. It cannot be avoided, even by God.
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You're as predictable as setting off a screeching car alarm; anything that doesn't put your DNA on a pedestal, including plain scripture, is either racism or anti-Semitism.
After a while it begins to lose it's effect. Then what are you going to do?
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Necessary for a purpose, not necessary in that it has to happen. God could have prevented it and he will prevent it one day. To say anything other is to deny God's power.
Yes, but my point is that God will defeat sin, something above you claim God was powerless over.
You are having trouble reading.
I think you have a serious reading comprehension problem.
1. God does not desire that man sin. "Be ye holy"
2. I said that for God allowed sin to serve a bigger purpose. So, sin was necessary only for this purpose.
3. No, God doesn't desire sin.
Think about what you are saying winman, are you seriously saying that right now God is totally powerless over sin?
Yes. The God of the Bible has power over sin. You are teaching about a God that doesn't have power over sin. He is not sovereign. He is not omnipotent.
you are just repeating yourself. I've already addressed this.
you teach a weak God. Not the God of the Bible.
I'm unable to grasp the false teaching you are presenting. As i have asked before, will there be sin in heaven? No, so God has the power over sin and thus it didn't have to happen.
So God will defeat sin. There, you just proved yourself wrong. God has the power over sin, thus God could have not allowed sin in the first place. to say anything else is utter heresy as it teaches that God is not sovereign over sin nor does he have power over sin.
What you are confusing is "necessary" for something to happen vs "necessary" as in unable to prevent. To be unable to prevent is powerless, which the Bible proves against when we will be in heaven with no sin.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
It is this life where you decide what your nature will be in the next life. If you choose Jesus, then your spirit is joined to the Holy Spirit and becomes one spirit. (1 Cor 6:17) Now we are partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4). At the resurrection we receive incorruptible bodies (1 Cor 15:50-54). You will never have the desire to sin again. [/quote]right, God will have a world with no sin, therefore God has the power over sin.
but you just said God will make a world without sin. You are the only one that has the contradiction.
You have a weak God, not the God of the Bible....well actually, you don't really know what you are talking about. "It cannot be avoided, even by God" is heresy. It shows that God doesn't have the power over sin.
You see, there are 3 things the Bible clearly teaches. You are denying one.
1. God is good
2. God is great
3. Evil exist
I believe all 3, you reject number 2.
Inspector Javert
Active Member
So....all that in order to say (I think) that you would say that you would answer "YES" to the question. O.K. Thank you.:wavey:
Pink would disagree with you, as would many other Calvinist Theologians, so I guess they also "belch" subterfuge?
Methinks that you REALLY dislike discussions about God's attribute of LOVE......that's very interesting. God's love may be your least favourite topic of discussion. I also think I know why :thumbs:
saturneptune
New Member
What is with the "methinks" nonsense. That has absolutely no meaning or purpose.
Aaron and I do not always agree, but he described God's love quite well. Everything we have is a gift from him, whether we take it for granted or not. We are not entitled to anything.
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Inspector Javert
Active Member
IMO: the fact that the notion of "entitlement" even enters into the mind in a discussion of "love" is precisely where I think that view is impoverished.
DrJamesAch
New Member
Biblicist just told you virtually the same thing that I did about the church, I don't see you calling him a "Zionist" or a Jew collaborator. There are many on this very thread that believe the same thing exactly as I have stated them, and I don't see you, nor have I ever seen you, call a person that you know is a WHITE MAN a Zionist. It is only when a JEW says something about Israel that you make these pejorative jabs on EVERY THREAD I comment on. Even when I have made it absolutely clear that I believe that Israel goes through the tribulation while the church is raptured, which clearly puts Israel in a much different light than how you portray my view, you skip right over those comments (made several times on this thread) and focus solely on your accusations against me merely because I'm Jewish.
Perhaps it is just a childish tactic to get under my skin and provoke a response to get the thread shut down as your and you pals have practiced over and over again when the Non Calvinists start overwhelming the threads. But the fact that you do so by using my heritage to accomplish your goal is BLATANT RACISM. You are a Jew hating racist punk playing a tough guy on a keyboard. Grow a pair, be a man and just OWN IT.
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saturneptune
New Member
That is correct, and IMO, what Aaron was trying to point out. Our food, clothes, and shelter is, in all honesty, a gift from the Lord. So is every breath we take, as is the ability to learn and do our jobs.
It is all a matter of perspective. In several other threads, about the visible return of Christ, I doubt when we as Christians look up and see such a glorious site, that we are going to be thinking about if our cell phone is working, or where the next text should go. All thoughts of Facebook and which restaurant to go to will be out the window.
Unbelievable as it sounds, that is the type of thing that is on most people's mind day to day. If there is one thing I think we all are going to have the hardest time explaining to the Lord when we give an account of our lives, are the frivolous use of the time He gave us to worship and praise Him, but most of all, tell others about the Gospel.
convicted1
Guest
Ya know Brother, I see a lot of things I wished I didn't in this world, wheher it is in tv or in real life. A while back, my wife was watching Dr. Phil, and they had the parents of a young "girl" on there.....on second thought, it might have been Ricki Lake. Either way, this "girl" was really a boy who at two years old...maybe three....but I digress, stated they were really a "girl" inside a boy's body. Then I saw a set of maternal twins who the boy thought they was a girl, and the girl thought she was a boy.
Here's the link to the "girl" born as a boy:
http://therickilakeshow.com/episodes-clips/2012/12/Meet-9-Year-Old-Born-as-a-Boy-Living-as-a-Girl
At two years old they made this statement.
I can't find anything about the maternal twins, but I only caught a snippet of it on the tv, and I might be incorrect about it.
Having worked for "John Q. Public" for over 20 years now, I see depravity all over the place. I see people whose last thought is about God. I once attempted to draw blood from a man who was "beating down death's door", and not just knocking on it. When I told him I needed to draw some blood, he went on a "cursing spree", and him almost a goner. I once talked to an old man who could barely walk with a cane, and he couldn't get no more than five words out without the use of an "oath". He died not very long after that. I have talked to lesbians in the hospital, and they brag on my cross necklace, and when I mention that Jesus can heal them of their sickness, they give a quick "amen", and yet, they live on in their sins. In fact, this very night, a lesbian in the ER complemented me on my cross necklace. They know all too well that God exists, and yet, go on their merry way.
God can justly punish sin. It is not unlike our own laws. We say all men are born with certain unalienable rights, one of which is freedom. We must allow men to make the choice whether they will obey the law or not. This enables crime, it cannot be prevented. Nevertheless, once someone has committed crime, then we can justly imprison them and prevent FUTURE crime. But we cannot prevent ORIGINAL crime, because we MUST allow freedom.
God will justly punish sin. God can justly keep sin out of heaven. But in this life, God by his nature must allow choice which enables sin, it cannot be prevented. But once sin has occured, then God can justly punish and prevent sin.
God has already defeated sin through Jesus Christ, but God had to allow choice which enabled sin.
I understood what you said. You said God could have made a world without sin. I disagree, Jesus said sin is necessary, it cannot be prevented in this world.
I disagree with #2. It is not so much that God allowed sin, he could not prevent it, it is necessary. His nature MUST allow choice which enables sin. The reason there will not be sin in heaven is because folks have already made their choice to be holy in this world.
But evil will still exist in the next world, though God will cast those who are evil in the lake of fire. But evil will always exist, it cannot be prevented.
No, God can justly punish sin, but God cannot prevent sin, HUGE difference. God by his nature must allow choice which enables sin. Sin will always exist.
I teach what the Bible says, Jesus said sin is NECESSARY. That means it cannot be avoided or prevented, even for God.
Calling my view false does not prove that it is. I base my view on what scripture says. You are trying to say sin is not necessary, that God could have made a world without sin, I am saying God could not have made a world without sin, Jesus said sin is necessary.
Yes, God has DEFEATED sin, but sin HAD to exist. You cannot seem to distinguish one from another. If God could have made a world without sin, there would be no sin to DEFEAT.
God is unable to prevent sin because he MUST give people choice. Once sin is committed, God can control and justly punish sin.
See, sin still exists, God says he that is unjust, let him be unjust STILL, and he that is filthy, let him be filthy STILL. Sin will be around FOREVER. It cannot be prevented, but it can be defeated and punished.
Winman said:
jbh said:
As shown, sin will ALWAYS exist, though God will cast all sinners in the lake of fire. There will be no sin in heaven, but sin will not ever cease to exist.
No, those in heaven are those who have chosen to be holy forever. But sin and sinners will always exist, and God will cast these persons in the lake of fire.
My God is not weak at all. Those sinners who get cast in the lake of fire will not say God is weak.
I am not rejecting #2 at all, but you are rejecting #3, you say God could have made a world WITHOUT sin, I am saying that is error, sin is NECESSARY.
That's where Calvinism goes wrong. You assume God can prevent sin (he cannot, because he must allow choice which enables sin) and therefore if sin exists, then God must desire sin.
That is error. Sin MUST exist because God by his nature must allow choice. God doesn't want sin, but sin is necessary. God cannot prevent sin, but God can justly defeat and control sin by punishing it in the lake of fire.
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saturneptune
New Member
Another false post in error. If there is a Rapture (which you have no idea whether there is or not), then Christians are Raptured, both Jew, and Gentile. That would also include rich, poor, big, small, black and white.
Instead of commenting on Scripture, your entire post, in fact all posts, focuses on the issue of Israel. Everyone on this board knows your nationality and where you live, as you have stated it at least ten thousand times. Israel has nothing to do with Calvinism, non Calvinism. Again, you are calling someone a racist who is not. He is calling you out on your superficial, materialistic agenda. His goal is not blatant racism. He is not a racist.
You have no concept of the principle that in Christ there is no Jew or Gentile. No one cares about your national origin. As far as the comment about the tough guy behind the keyboard, I have a feeling he is quite able to take care of himself.
I do want to thank you for another reportable post.
Inspector Javert
Active Member
And.......now we see precisely the agenda of some on B.B. And JUST as he foresaw he called you on it and you admit it:
You cannot win a reasoned debate with Dr. J. (even if he's wrong, you can't beat him in a debate). So there is a desire to demean him, get under his skin and hopefully find some way to get people you can't handle banned or snipped or silenced in some way.
True motives always come out in the end don't they? Kind of like when Obama inadvertently talked about his "Muslim" faith or "Clinging to God, guns and Bibles". Your true feelings are coming out S.N.
Just like K.Y. you want to provoke him to the point that you can silence him, and you just admitted it. :thumbs:
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