Raising Hands in Worship

[jshurley04]

Raising Hands

How did we get from raising hands in worship to " biblical mandate for swaying back in forth singing 7/11's with your hands raised.."

The poster of that particular point probably has a pastor or parent that believes that all modern music only uses 7 words repeated 11 times, and that this cannot possibly be God honoring.

That or he was simply trying to make a point.

 

[D28guy]

Pastor Larry,

"So what part of corporate worship allows us to doing something individually? (Not making fun here, but seriously asking)."

Because in a corporate gathering we have many individuals.

"How would it go over in your church if someone just stood up and started singing because it was personal and the Bible commands us to sing? I bet not too well."

It happens regularly in our fellowship. Once one starts, others start singing with them. Its a wonderful and God ordained thing.

"Or someone stood up and started praying aloud?"

Its common for that to happen.

Or preaching?

Testifying is a form of preaching many times. Sometimes when people spontaniously "testify" its the most anointed word given during the meeting.

"Why is the act of raising hands in corporate worship individual when other acts of worship are recognized as something we all do together?"

because worship has corporate aspects to it as well as individual.

"Why is raising hands in corporate worship an individual issue? Why isn't a corporate issue?"

It can go either way.

(I really don't have an answer to this so I am not asking a loaded question. A friend of mine has made this exact argument and I have no answer for it.)

I'm trying to give some answers.

"Secondly, if you don't object when the pastor or worship leader asks you to raise your voice in worship together, why object when he asks you to raise your hands in worship together? Why is one an acceptable request and another not?"

Both are perfectly fine.

"Bottom line question: What biblical support if there for acts of individuality in corporate worship?"

1 Corinthians 14: 26-32...

"Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.

28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.

30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.

31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."

Theres a lot more, but this should suffice.

God bless,

Mike

 

[drfuss]

What do you mean by "during the worship part of the service." What other part is there?

There are basically two parts of our services. The worship part consists of the song service and the specials. The other part is the sermon consisting of biblical truths and instruction. Both are needed for a balanced service; and for that matter, a balanced Christian life.

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Why on earth would you need to doubt him. Just say "good for you" and go on with your life.

PL: I didn't doubt him. A guy who is living in open immorality does not have the Spirit, no matter what he feels like. Isn't it interesting that in teh Bible, the Spirit is never about feelings.
BB: Acts 2:
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,


Quote:
Sometimes I get shouted down because of the Spirit.

PL; That seems contrary to the Bible. I see no place in the Bible where the pastor preaching the word gets shouted down. In fact, when that happens, it seems like it because the Word isn't getting much respect. I don't know about your case so I am not commenting directly on that. But I wonder if the Spirit isn't geting blamed for stuff He has nothing to do with.
BB: Do you think in Acts 2: they were all contrary to the Bible? Strange remark.

Eph 5:
13: But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14: Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15: See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16: Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17: Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18: And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19: Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20: Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21: Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Acts 2:
15: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

BB:,
Yea, here because of the Spirit, they thought they were all drunk, or don't you take this scripture?

There is a time for all things Pastor; a time to preach and a time to close the meeting. I would much rather leave them a little hungry, so they come back to hear me again, than to preach to them that they are glad to get out of the building.

There are many as you are that would probably feel uncomfortable among us, but thanks be to God there are many who feel right at home.

There were some who came to our service from the Methodist, some came from the Church of Christ. After service in both of these cases, there has been many. They said "Our meetings are not like yours. we do the same ole thing, ever Sunday. They will not let us rejoice". I had to take care of a funeral in Michigan, several years ago with a Catholic preist. He did his part and at the Cemetary we had another small service by me. Afterwards the preist came to me and said "well, I guess it takes us all". The Catholics are not my cup of tea, but that man knew there was something happening in our service that he could witness.

 

[PJ]

My inclination is to have no problem with people raising hands in worship ...

My issue is when it becomes distracting. I was at a conference recently where I stood behind a woman who had her hands raised, head thrown back, and pelvis gyrating to the music. It was very distracting.

The few who draw attention to themselves is a problem at all churches. I too doubt it necessary for someone to gyrate their pelvis while swaying for it probably will distract someone behind them. We have not yet experienced this at our church, though there's one gentlemen in our midst who insists on being seen and heard at all times. It can be quite distracting, as well as quite annoying.

For the record, we do raise hands in our services -- I do too. As earlier stated, I don't like to be coaxed to. Done on cue, it's artificial. So much so, you'll know by reading the expressions on some folk's faces.

 

[Brother Bob]

We too have one who shouts to no end at anything. I must admit that I wonder about that one.
As far as the pelvis, I really haven't looked to see if the pelvis is moving or not.

When something seems artificial, it can bring a coldness on the whole meeting, and there are those also.

Hbr 2:12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee

 

[Blammo]

After reading through this thread, I conclude:

Raise your hands, raise your haaaaaaands, if you're sure.

 

[TCGreek]

I think David was at least unwise in that particular instance.

David was not at all unwise: "Let them praise His name with dancing; Let them sing praises to Him with timbrel and lyre" (Psa. 149:3).

This is the Word of God speaking, unless we think otherwise.

 

[Pastor Larry]

There are basically two parts of our services. The worship part consists of the song service and the specials. The other part is the sermon consisting of biblical truths and instruction. Both are needed for a balanced service; and for that matter, a balanced Christian life.

This is a disastrous dichotomy. Preaching is as much worship as singing is. The idea that there is worship and preaching is not biblical. God is worshipped in preaching as much as in singing.

 

[Pastor Larry]

] BB: Acts 2:
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Great passages, but how is this relevant to claim from a man in open immorality that he has the Spirit?

BB: Do you think in Acts 2: they were all contrary to the Bible? Strange remark.

I don't see anyone in Acts shouting down the preacher. In fact, i don't see that anywhere in the NT.

Yea, here because of the Spirit, they thought they were all drunk, or don't you take this scripture?

Of course, I take the Scripture (whatever that means). They thought they were drunk becuase they were talking in foreign languages, or being heard in foreign languages. That was a sign gift from the Spirit. It has nothing to do with shouting someone down in church.

There is a time for all things Pastor; a time to preach and a time to close the meeting. I would much rather leave them a little hungry, so they come back to hear me again, than to preach to them that they are glad to get out of the building.

Perhaps, but again, how is this relevant? I think we are getting off track here.

There are many as you are that would probably feel uncomfortable among us, but thanks be to God there are many who feel right at home.

So what do feelings have to do with it?

 

[Pastor Larry]

David was not at all unwise: "Let them praise His name with dancing; Let them sing praises to Him with timbrel and lyre" (Psa. 149:3).

This is the Word of God speaking, unless we think otherwise.

How do you know that what is describe in Psa 149:3 is what David was doing? David brought embarrassment and disrepute on the Lord by taking his clothes off in dancing. With this passage, some make the mistake of thinking that narrative is normative or prescriptive. It isn't. This passage about David dancing is not telling us to dance. It is only telling us that David did dance, and for some reason, God inspired the author to tell us that it brought embarrassment and shame for David retaliated against Michal.

 

[drfuss]

This is a disastrous dichotomy. Preaching is as much worship as singing is. The idea that there is worship and preaching is not biblical. God is worshipped in preaching as much as in singing.

Obviously, we have different definitions and experiences of worship during the church service. We are happy with the worship part of our church services as well as the preaching. You seem to be happy with the corporate aspects of the church service and consider that worship. We should both be glad we go to different churches.

 

[christianyouth]

Obviously, we have different definitions and experiences of worship during the church service. We are happy with the worship part of our church services as well as the preaching. You seem to be happy with the corporate aspects of the church service and consider that worship. We should both be glad we go to different churches.

His whole point is that there is no time of worship at a church service, the entire church service is worship. Holy Communion, the reading of scripture, the singing of hymns, and most importantly, the faithful expounding of God's Word, that is all a single act of worship.

It's amazing how unbiblical our approach to worship is, we talk about it as it is an event.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Obviously, we have different definitions and experiences of worship during the church service.

How do you define worship if hearing from God is not included? What are we worshipping and on what basis do we worship? We can only worship because we have heard from God. God is worshipped when his word is rightly proclaimed (which may be why some churches don't worship in preaching). But true biblical preaching is worship.

We are happy with the worship part of our church services as well as the preaching.

Up to this point in the thread, I haven't really been troubled by much (except whoever talked about being shouted down). But this is troubling. "Being happy" with something is irrelevant. There are a lot of people happy with their religious rituals and observances. The question is Are we worshipping as God has commanded or are we doing our own thing?

Why is worship an experience? Why talk about the worship experience? I think we have fallen prey to a very unbiblical pattern of worship. The assumptions made in this thread that have no real basis in Scripture is enlightening. Not all of them are wrong, but there are some that I think are in need of serious rethinking.

I guess I am realizing again just how weak the teaching and practice of theology in current Baptist life is. It is astounding to me. We have people who know what they do but don't know why they do it. They cannot make a reasoned defense of it. They quote a few verses and conclude with "We like it," as if that is a warrant for it.

Again my objection is not to people raising hands. I was genuinely curious if anyone had thought through these issues. Apparently not, at least in any substantive exegetical and theological manner.

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
] BB: Acts 2:
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Great passages, but how is this relevant to claim from a man in open immorality that he has the Spirit?

I must of misread you if you are saying a immoral man says he has the Spirit, I would doubt it also.

Quote:
BB: Do you think in Acts 2: they were all contrary to the Bible? Strange remark.
I don't see anyone in Acts shouting down the preacher. In fact, i don't see that anywhere in the NT.

We accept it as a glorious thing. I don't think a preacher could of preached over top of them in Acts 2: Shouting down is "my words", what really takes place, the church begins to praise God openly, kinda like the day of pentecost, but as you stated above, that really upsets you. Too bad! You refer as we haven't studied, when we think the way you want us to worship is like a business meeting. No thanks Pastor.

Of course, if a congregation really got tired of a preacher, they could shout him down

Paster Larry; What would you do if your message touched the hearts of the congregation so much that they began praising God and it got so loud, that the best thing to do is sing and close the service?
How would you feel about such a thing after it was over, good or bad?

There are many as you are that would probably feel uncomfortable among us, but thanks be to God there are many who feel right at home. So what do feelings have to do with it?

Everything!

Why is worship an experience? Why talk about the worship experience? I think we have fallen prey to a very unbiblical pattern of worship. The assumptions made in this thread that have no real basis in Scripture is enlightening. Not all of them are wrong, but there are some that I think are in need of serious rethinking.

It sounds like you are never able to say, "well there was really a good Spiritual feeling at church today", that is sad to me.

Pastor Larry; is there no "feeling" in your church?

Jhn 4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Without the Spirit, you might as well go home!

Psa 86:12I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.

 

[Pipedude]

I've lost count of the number of young unchurched adults who have approached me because of my status as a minister and have told of how they visited a church with a friend and were creeped out at the way people were behaving.

In every culture there is behavior that fits the concept of propriety and there is behavior that creeps people out. The latter should be avoided unless your goal is, indeed, to creep people out.

 

[Brother Bob]

In every culture there is behavior that fits the concept of propriety and there is behavior that creeps people out. The latter should be avoided unless your goal is, indeed, to creep people out.

So, should we worship as the world would have us do. They would sit down and have a coctail first I am sure.

Worshipping Jesus as the Christ "creeps" people out.

Pipedude; would you stop worshipping Jesus because it creeps someone out?

That is what is wrong with this country now in our schools, court houses, graduations etc. The Christians "creep" people out. I went to a graduation last night and they prayed to Jesus. I told my wife, that they had just broke the law. We live in a community that accepts Christ but others do not.

I shall not hold my peace, thank you.

BBob

 

[Pastor Larry]

I must of misread you if you are saying a immoral man says he has the Spirit, I would doubt it also.

The example I used was a man living with his girlfriend without being married. She was a member of the church and was eventually disciplined for it.

We accept it as a glorious thing. I don't think a preacher could of preached over top of them in Acts 2:

Preached over the top of who? Peter was preaching. He was being heard and understood. And that is why they made the accusation of being drunk. There is no sign in Acts 2 of disorder or competition of voice.

Shouting down is "my words", what really takes place, the church begins to praise God openly, kinda like the day of pentecost,

Kind of like the day of Pentecost? With the miraculous gift of tongues?

but as you stated above, that really upsets you. Too bad! You refer as we haven't studied, when we think the way you want us to worship is like a business meeting. No thanks Pastor.

i haven't referred to it as you not studying. You haven't given any evidence of your study here. I don't want you to worship like a business meeting. I certainly don't.

Paster Larry; What would you do if your message touched the hearts of the congregation so much that they began praising God and it got so loud, that the best thing to do is sing and close the service?
How would you feel about such a thing after it was over, good or bad?

We do thinks decently and in order, as the Scripture commands. We preach the word, call people to a response, and expect it. If someone was disrupting the service we would do something about it.

Everything!

Where does the Bible command us to feel a certain way?

Pastor Larry; is there no "feeling" in your church?

Yes of course. But that is not the goal, nor the motivation. The goal and motivation is the glory of God and the clear communicatino of his truth.

Jhn 4:23

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Without the Spirit, you might as well go home!

I agree, but don't we need to make sure what Spirit we are listening to?

Psa 86:12

I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.

Great verse. Just what I am talking about. But I don't see how this necessitates what you are talking about.

 

[Amy.G]

Pastor Larry,
We've all been pretty open about the services at our individual churches. I was just curious as to what services are like in your church? Do you lift hands? Shout amens? Break out in song? Share testimonies?
Would you mind telling us about your church?

 

[LadyEagle]

What do you mean by "during the worship part of the service." What other part is there?

My pastor would probably be surprised if we started raising our hands during his message. (On second thought, knowing how some of us are, he probably wouldn't, maybe he'd join us.) :tonofbricks: