MacArthur disagrees with you in his book Gospel According to Jesus. I've misconstrued nothing. If you agree to stop sinning in exchange for salvation, you are espousing a works salvation, plain and simple.
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No, He does not. I own, and have read multiple times that book, and I defy you to quote Macarthur saying that repentance is an action.
I’m wondering if you may have left out the more descriptive phrase of “acceptance” regarding if one is a Christian then they accept Christ is his/her Lord. This reminds me of, Ed Sutton (RIP), who would have been unlikely to let this pass without saying something like, "You don’t make Jesus your Lord, He IS your Lord; He paid the price for sin and every knee will bow to Him.” Anyway, the statement about “when all that comes together” would be in agreement with that Christ “is’ Lord regardless.
Amen, Yes it is! When one becomes a teacher of God’s grace, while sharing the Gospel, whether a pastor or not, I believe it is always wise to include this, keeping it in mind about “turning from sin”. Not as a work, but as so doing in love and obedience to our Savior, as per Mat 5:19, and keeping in the forefront the responsibility of repentance.
IMO, there is a often, or at least could be depending on interpretations, a fine line between "Free Grace" and "Lordship Salvation" doctrines, or should be. Of course, there are always those who will go to extremes.
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Ohh, ...unlikely that would go forgotten!
You mean there is difference?
:smilewinkgrin:
Alive in Christ
New Member
The initial "repentance" for salvation is repenting of not embracing Christ through faith, and deciding TO place your faith in Christ.
Turning from sin, or "putting off the old man" and "putting on the new man" is what we do AFTER being born again.
We are born into the body of Christ as a result of one thing, and only one thing...
Faith in Jesus Christ. And that is faith ALONE.
Not faith + turning from all known sin. That would clearly be a works based false gospel.
Faith alone.
We then spend the rest of our lives "putting off" sin and "putting on" the "new man" of rightiousness.
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ashleysdad
Member
Why would it not be? If my brother buys me a sweater for Christmas that doesn't fit and I exchange it for one that does it is still a gift. I didn't buy it or earn it, I simply exchanged it for something that was better.
Faith in Christ is turning from sin. You cannot turn to Christ and still be in rebellion.
2 Corinthians 7:10 (King James Version)
10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
IMO the above is saying Godly sorrow is sorrow over what one is, and worldly sorrow is sorrow over what one has done.
Godly sorrow is the realization that I am a sinner and cannot do one darn thing about it.
I was born evil, I will always be evil, and the only one that can do anything about it is God through Jesus Christ.
I will always be an evil sinner but only through the grace of God does He see me in Christ and not as the sorry death deserving sinner that I am.
Worldly sorrow says I used to be a sinner but now because I know better I no longer do the things I used to do.
I got caught and now I am cleaning up my act.
10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
IMO the above is saying Godly sorrow is sorrow over what one is, and worldly sorrow is sorrow over what one has done.
Godly sorrow is the realization that I am a sinner and cannot do one darn thing about it.
I was born evil, I will always be evil, and the only one that can do anything about it is God through Jesus Christ.
I will always be an evil sinner but only through the grace of God does He see me in Christ and not as the sorry death deserving sinner that I am.
Worldly sorrow says I used to be a sinner but now because I know better I no longer do the things I used to do.
I got caught and now I am cleaning up my act.
If A is sin, and B is salvation...are you saying our sin is a gift?
If you were to read that site I wrote, you would see I clearly do not teach what you erroneously portray me to teach. In fact, I also refute the false doctrine of antinomianism! You confuse "discipleship" passages with "salvation" passages. We get saved on the merits of Christ's perfection and death burial and resurrection. Your good intentions dont pay for your sins! Your willingness to turn from your sins, doesnt pay for the sins you've committed. As new converts, the Bible instructs us to TEACH them to obey Christ. That is 100% sound Bible!
The Bible says you are either saved 100% by grace or 100% by works(Rom 11:6). LS is partly works, and thus, if a lost sinner thinks he is going to heaven because he made a commitment to follow Christ and turn away from his sins, he will wake up in hell!
So you are saying that one who puts his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and follows Him all the days of his life will go to hell? I never heard that one. So just HOW are we saved?
Making a decision to TRUST in Christ ALONE to save you from your sins, is vastly different from making a decision to obey Jesus and turn from sins to get saved. There are two extremes here....The antinomians and the Lordship position. Both positions are wrong. Just as Calvinism and Arminianism are both wrong! Evidence that one truly repented is shown in a professing Christian's life(turning from sins, committing their lives to obeying Christ, etc).
Many confuse the ROOT of saving faith and the FRUIT of saving faith. Just as seeing the leaves blow on the tree, is EVIDENCE that wind is present.
The confusion lies at the heart of modern false preachers(ie:MacArthur) who have corrupted the word "repentance" and "Lord". The site I wrote proves that these false teachers twist the Scriptures!
http://bewareofraycomfort.weebly.com/
Did you read through the entire context of those quotes?
No it is not. If you put your faith in Christ, you are TAKING your faith from sin. The Bible says you cannot serve two masters: you are either serving Christ, or serving sin. You are putting your faith in Christ, or putting your faith in the world. You cannot have faith in both.
Actually, the two extreme positions is YOUR position, antinomianism, which makes repentance optional, and Works righteousness, which makes salvation based on physical actions.
Lordship Salvation, which teaches that when one turns to Christ, they turn from sin, is the mediating position. Your position is condemned by scripture.
You are confusing ACTION with DECISION. Saying I am putting my faith in Christ, instead of the world, is not work.
The site you "wrote" is childish, and proves nothing, except that you wish to draw attention to yourself, and draw other men astray into your heinous, antinomian error.
How did this thread get the 5 star rating? That one I don't understand........and it's his first post and first thread!
ashleysdad
Member
If A is sin, and B is salvation...are you saying our sin is a gift?
I guess it depends on how you decide what a gift is. The Bible makes it clear that we inherit a sin nature from the 1st Adam. It may not be a "gift" that we would want but it is something we gain (are given) by inheritance. The real problem is our sin nature is a gift that just keeps on given. Because of our sin nature we are predisposed to sin and (before) salvation give in to that nature willingly and gladly. IMHO the greatest obstacle to a person receiving Christ as Saviour is the realization that they will no longer be the Lord of their life Christ will be. I firmly believe that the single biggest reason people reject Christ is not lack of knowledge or awareness of sin but a flat out refusal on their part to make anyone but themselves Lord of their life. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I don't believe that a person must give up sin than get saved. I do however believe that for real salvation to occur, Christ must be acknowledged as Saviour AND Lord
Strongs
metanoew metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o
from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z]
repentance
REPENT'ANCE, n.
1. Sorrow for any thing done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct.
2. In theology, the pain, regret or affliction which a person feels on account of his past conduct, because it exposes him to punishment. This sorrow proceeding merely from the fear of punishment, is called legal repentance, as being excited by the terrors of legal penalties, and it may exist without an amendment of life.
3. Real penitence; sorrow or deep contrition for sin, as an offense and dishonor to God, a violation of his holy law, and the basest ingratitude towards a Being of infinite benevolence. This is called evangelical repentance, and is accompanied and followed by amendment of life.
Repentance is a change of mind, or a conversion from sin to God.
Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7. Matt. 3.
Repentance is the relinquishment of any practice, from conviction that it has offended God.
No one will come to Christ unless they first change their mind (repent) about sin. If the unbeliever keeps the same mindset about sin, which is he likes it, then he won't see any need for a Savior. It's only when he changes his mind (repents) and sees sin as something he wants nothing more to do with.
Repentance is simply having a change of mind towards God and away from sin, and the first step toward salvation.
It is not a work.
metanoew metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o
from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z]
repentance
REPENT'ANCE, n.
1. Sorrow for any thing done or said; the pain or grief which a person experiences in consequence of the injury or inconvenience produced by his own conduct.
2. In theology, the pain, regret or affliction which a person feels on account of his past conduct, because it exposes him to punishment. This sorrow proceeding merely from the fear of punishment, is called legal repentance, as being excited by the terrors of legal penalties, and it may exist without an amendment of life.
3. Real penitence; sorrow or deep contrition for sin, as an offense and dishonor to God, a violation of his holy law, and the basest ingratitude towards a Being of infinite benevolence. This is called evangelical repentance, and is accompanied and followed by amendment of life.
Repentance is a change of mind, or a conversion from sin to God.
Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7. Matt. 3.
Repentance is the relinquishment of any practice, from conviction that it has offended God.
No one will come to Christ unless they first change their mind (repent) about sin. If the unbeliever keeps the same mindset about sin, which is he likes it, then he won't see any need for a Savior. It's only when he changes his mind (repents) and sees sin as something he wants nothing more to do with.
Repentance is simply having a change of mind towards God and away from sin, and the first step toward salvation.
It is not a work.
I think the problem is in the the perspective people take.
Can a person say: Jesus, be my Saviour but you will not be my God?
Most people will agree that this type of person is self seeking and not truly desiring a relationship with God, Christ, nor His Spirit. They are not saved.
Why?
Because they did not understand so great a salvation given by a Holy and Righteous God. Its about what they can get and not what they have done and what He has done on their behalf.!
Romans 10:9 states : if you will confess the 'Lord' Jesus and believe with your heart that God has raised Him from the dead. You will be saved.
Why must a person confess the 'Lord' Jesus and not just saviour Jesus. Because He is the Lord by whos grace we are saved. It is the acknowledgement of truth (of who Christ IS and what He has DONE) that reciprocates in submissive Love. It is the truth that set you free. If you understand who and what Christ has done, you will understand salvation. But you can not understand salvation without acknowledging the very Lord and God who gives it.
Even Thomos said: My Lord and my God at the moment of his beleif.
IMO of course.
Can a person say: Jesus, be my Saviour but you will not be my God?
Most people will agree that this type of person is self seeking and not truly desiring a relationship with God, Christ, nor His Spirit. They are not saved.
Why?
Because they did not understand so great a salvation given by a Holy and Righteous God. Its about what they can get and not what they have done and what He has done on their behalf.!
Romans 10:9 states : if you will confess the 'Lord' Jesus and believe with your heart that God has raised Him from the dead. You will be saved.
Why must a person confess the 'Lord' Jesus and not just saviour Jesus. Because He is the Lord by whos grace we are saved. It is the acknowledgement of truth (of who Christ IS and what He has DONE) that reciprocates in submissive Love. It is the truth that set you free. If you understand who and what Christ has done, you will understand salvation. But you can not understand salvation without acknowledging the very Lord and God who gives it.
Even Thomos said: My Lord and my God at the moment of his beleif.
IMO of course.
Steven2006
New Member
Nobody have any answers to my questions?
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