R.C. Sproul does not believe in the mediatorial work of human agency. Confessing our sins to each other is not mediatorial in nature.
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RC Sprouls Church. Orthodox Reformed?
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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R.C. Sproul does not believe in the mediatorial work of human agency. Confessing our sins to each other is not mediatorial in nature.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
But confessing sins to a priest is mediatorial in nature, and Sproul -- who, as already pointed out, is also a preterist -- endorses confession to a priest. That means he endorses the mediatorial work of the priest, because there is no other reason to do so.
I guess Calvinists will agree with anyone who agrees with the five points, huh?
preacher4truth
Active Member
That's poppycock my friend. It's not just about confessing sins now is it? That's right, we also have the 'you're forgiven' part. His description and quote actually support what you're denying. When another is saying to one other 'your sins are forgiven' after confessing them as per his suggestion then that's called mediatorial. The context of the Scripture used even supports this mediatorial. You're simply wrong and have misspoken, so face it brother.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Nope. Not this Calvinist. :thumbsup:
You do not understand the Protestant view on forgiveness of sin. This is what R.C. Sproul is articulating whether you accept it or not. It is categorically different than the papist view.
As a minister of the Gospel I can announce from the pulpit that, on the basis that a person has been justified by faith, "your sins are forgiven". This is materially different than Roman teaching. According to Roman teaching a priest can actually forgive or retain sin (although retaining a person's sin is a rarity). The minister of the Gospel can do no such thing. All he can do is proclaim what scripture says, "Your sins are forgiven" (Luke 7:48). Of course the caveat is that the person has to repent of their sins and place their faith in Christ. Their sins are forgiven through the atoning work of Christ and by the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5).
If you are extrapolating anything different than this from that one quote of Sproul you are in error.
And this bad why?
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Oh, I don't know ...
Because it's unbiblical? Just a thought. You think this Earth as it now exists is Paradise?
preacher4truth
Active Member
You're still incorrect as I do understand it, but yours is a nice attempt to discredit another person namely me, but it's not that simple. Keep convincing yourself that confessing your sins to a person and being told you're forgiven isn't mediatorial as Sproul's teaching begs to differ.
The thing is you thought Sproul never said such a thing, as if I had lied or came up with it on my own idea, or that I misunderstood him, until I showed you he in fact stated it. He also used apostolic authority as proof from Scripture via apostolic succession showing his desire to continue this unto this day in the church. In other words he makes a plea for John 20:23 and shows his desire for it to be valid in the church today, as if we are missing something.
That is mediatory, and you can deny it all you want, yet it's still true.
He's also preached the same on Renewing Your Mind.
You're in denial and are simply dodging in order to remain 'right' after being shown he does teach this, and thus remain as wrong as Sproul, one I highly respect for much of his teaching.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Yeah Reformed....you did not know that YOU don't understand it. You should have first consulted with yours truly before you went and posted. He would have set you on the correct understanding.
Seriously though, do you see any value in the concept of confession of sins to a "minister" in anyway analogous to the Catholic practice?
Seriously though, do you see any value in the concept of confession of sins to a "minister" in anyway analogous to the Catholic practice?
The land without, no. The land within, yes.
No doubt. quantumfaith said:
It depends on how the practice is viewed in toto. James provides some insight into the practice of confessing sins to elders.
James 5:13-16 Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises. Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
There are times when sickness is a result of sin. In those instances confessing sin is a way of coming clean with God. As under-shepherds of the church, elders have pastoral duties towards those under their charge. In the case of James 5, the person hearing the confession is not proclaiming Ego te absolvo (I absolve you), although he can proclaim te absolvo* because God is the one forgiving sin.
*Please note the difference between "Ego te absolvo" and "te absolvo".
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
That's not the ultimate location of Paradise.
Encyclopedic treatise on St. Andrew's, explain many of the romish elements of the Ligonier Ministries chapel-church:
For Beauty and Holiness
It goes on and on about the architecture, paintings, liturgy, etc.
For Beauty and Holiness
It goes on and on about the architecture, paintings, liturgy, etc.
Archie the Preacher
Member
R. C. Sproul
I listen to R. C. Sproul on the radio program 'Renewing Your Mind'. I've never been to his church, but it is located not too far from where my son is enrolled in college so the thought has crossed my mind to check it out next time I'm there.
My background is Southern Baptist; in dog years that means I was a (active) member of a SoBap fellowship from the time I was in 'cradle roll' until I was in my middle 50s. Part of that time I was pastor of a small SoBap church in the wilds of PDSR California. Since then, I've attended other flavor Baptist churches and now find myself in a Berean Bible Fellowship church.
So I'm pretty familiar with Christianity and essential doctrines.
In addition to that, I spend twenty-eight years getting paid to find out what people didn't want me to know about them. (Flatfootus Federalis.)
R. C. Sproul doesn't set off my Bad Theology detector. (That's the gist of it, details follow.)
I have noted he is not a hard line Baptist. He is unquestionably a Calvinist, and doesn't seem to care who knows. He claims to be of 'reformed' school rather openly. So if any of that is a problem, he's guilty. (Not much of a hoot give I.)
I heard him - within the last week or so I think, time does move at varied rates for me - speak about 'baptizing' infants and my ears perked up. I can't remember all he said, but when it was over, he did NOT claim that infant baptism was sufficient for salvation and a guarantee of future relationship with God. Being a basic Baptist, I thought it odd to mention at all, but on the whole didn't find his remarks either blasphemous or heretical.
As I said, I listen to "Renewing Your Mind" regularly and other than a mild 'quibble' about detail from time to time, I find no great problem with his theology. (I have about the same view of J. Vernon McGee - to whom I have listened since about 1965 or so.) I rather think I would be comfortable in his church as he would be in mine (which I do not pastor these days.)
Disclaimer: I am not the final authority on Mr. Sproul. I cannot and will not take on all comers regarding 'I heard he said...' or what he '...really believes...'. I would suggest listening to his radio program and making notes about perceived 'heresies'. That's a much better source of information than second-hand reports from others.
I listen to R. C. Sproul on the radio program 'Renewing Your Mind'. I've never been to his church, but it is located not too far from where my son is enrolled in college so the thought has crossed my mind to check it out next time I'm there.
My background is Southern Baptist; in dog years that means I was a (active) member of a SoBap fellowship from the time I was in 'cradle roll' until I was in my middle 50s. Part of that time I was pastor of a small SoBap church in the wilds of PDSR California. Since then, I've attended other flavor Baptist churches and now find myself in a Berean Bible Fellowship church.
So I'm pretty familiar with Christianity and essential doctrines.
In addition to that, I spend twenty-eight years getting paid to find out what people didn't want me to know about them. (Flatfootus Federalis.)
R. C. Sproul doesn't set off my Bad Theology detector. (That's the gist of it, details follow.)
I have noted he is not a hard line Baptist. He is unquestionably a Calvinist, and doesn't seem to care who knows. He claims to be of 'reformed' school rather openly. So if any of that is a problem, he's guilty. (Not much of a hoot give I.)
I heard him - within the last week or so I think, time does move at varied rates for me - speak about 'baptizing' infants and my ears perked up. I can't remember all he said, but when it was over, he did NOT claim that infant baptism was sufficient for salvation and a guarantee of future relationship with God. Being a basic Baptist, I thought it odd to mention at all, but on the whole didn't find his remarks either blasphemous or heretical.
As I said, I listen to "Renewing Your Mind" regularly and other than a mild 'quibble' about detail from time to time, I find no great problem with his theology. (I have about the same view of J. Vernon McGee - to whom I have listened since about 1965 or so.) I rather think I would be comfortable in his church as he would be in mine (which I do not pastor these days.)
Disclaimer: I am not the final authority on Mr. Sproul. I cannot and will not take on all comers regarding 'I heard he said...' or what he '...really believes...'. I would suggest listening to his radio program and making notes about perceived 'heresies'. That's a much better source of information than second-hand reports from others.
