Originally posted by A Fiery Fundamentalist:
I am glad that, for once, I am debating this with someone who partially agrees with me at all. I do not recall saying that I support Southern Gospel, especially since I do not.
I didn't mdean you, specifically.
By and large, people who knock rock and CCM
are into Southern gospel.
Take the folks on i-love-jesus.com.
They come out and say that they will not allow any disussion of rock or CCM (except to bash it, of course) and one of their moderators, bennieboy (who I think has changed his name to brother ben), follows southern gospel groups with almost cult-like fascination.
In fact, I was banned from the board for daring to demonstrate that his favorite SG groups used the very same studio musicians as Hank Williams, Jr, Jimmy Buffett, Shania Twain, Garth Brooks and a variety of rock and pop/country artists.
Rich Mullins: Many churches still sing his "Awesome God," and many of them also sing also sing the accompanying verses. I thought that the first verse especially was highly disrespectful talking about God ("When he rolls up his sleeves, He ain't just puttin' on the ritz").
As much as I love his music, I don't like "Awsome God" (but for different reasons than you don't like it).
Why do you think it was disrespectful?
Wes King: Many of his songs that I have heard have fit into the Gothic card illustration.
I don't know what you mean by that.
I've always found his music to be pleasant acoustic pop and his lyrical content to be scripturally based and well thought out.
Can you name me any CCM songs that would be considered unacceptable to liberals, Pentecostal/Charismatics, etc.
I don't know if I can for a couple of reasons.
One is that, with only a few exceptions, CCM is entertainment, not ministry, and, as such, is sort of "Christianity-lite".
They subjects they sing about are very tame and not anything controversial that we would disagree with.
I know that, in both my time as a charismatic and working in the production end of Christian music, I've found that it appeals to people fo a wide variety of non-essential ideologies.
If, by "liberal", you and I are thinking of the same people, they tend not to listen to CCM, anyway. However, in very extreme cases, they have changed the words to some of the great hymns of the faith to suit their political ideology.
At least you are the CCM-supporter I have ever debated who did not like Carman's music.
I'm not the only one. If you go to crosswalk.com, you'll see that, while he does have his supporters there, he takes quite a bit of heat for his faulty doctrine, his admiration of false teachers such as William Branham and other things.
Personally, I believe Carman is what would hapen if Wayne Newtion and Benny Hinn had a baby.
Here is a prime example of false doctrine in CCM using one of CCM's best loved choruses: "Majesty" by Jack Hayford. Here is the particular line I have in mind: "Majesty, kingdom authority flow from his throne unto his own, His anthem raise." Note: KINGDOM AUTHORITY. That is the summation of much of Charismatic falsehood. All authority belongs to God. I am sure that there is no need for me elaborate on the false doctrine of kingdom authority. Especially remember that Jack Hayford is Charismatic and did intend it that way.
FF, that's not CCM. This is what is commonly called "worship choruses", which I don't like for a variety of reasons (none of them doctrine, I think).
Jack Hayford is a biblically orthodox teacher but is heading out of bounds rather quickly.
In the case of "Majesty", though, I think you're reading something in to it that's not there.
As far as your response to my thoughts on "CCM is the only way to reach people these days," were you saying that you agree with me, or were you saying that you agree with them?
I was saying that I've never heard anyone say that CCM is the only way to reach people, only a valid way.
I am very surprised that you never came across that kind of statement. Surely you must have heard someone say, "Hymns are well and good for old people (some do not even give hymns that "complement"), but the only way to reach the present generation is with their kind of music,"
Nope, never have.
The artists I've worked with have, to the best of my knowledge, been very respectful of the old hymns.
One of Starsongs top selling albums was a various artists compilation of the top CCM artists of the late eighties and early ninties singing hymns.
Julie Miller (when she was doing Christian music), Bruce Carrol, Wayne Watson, Jerome Olds, Jacob's Trouble and many other artists have included hymns on their albums.
Thank you for being the least naive person that I have ever debated the CCM issue with.
Thank you. I hope I'm not cynical about it by now.
Believe me, I've been on every concievable side of this issue and have had nearly fourteen years as a Christian to sort this out.
When I was a young Christian, I was one of those people the Bible talks about being "blown to and fro by every wind of doctrine".
When I first became a Christian, I had this crazy notion that I had to get rid of all of my albums.
Fortunately, I was in a place where I didn't have room for my albums and my sister was holding on to them for me.
Having been through the same thing in the mid-late seventies, she refused to let me throw them out.
Looking back, I glad.
I bought all the books, Jim and Steve Peters, Fletcher A. Brothers, Bob Larson, David Wilkerson, etc.
I was caught up in such a fervor that I didn't even bother to see if they had their facts straight and, sure enough, they didn't.
I finally noticed that they would say things about artists I listened to that I knew weren't true and I always thought it was funny that their books were aimed at kids but talked about artists that no kid in my school would be caught dead listening to and artists that no one who was a teenager in the mid-late eighties would have heard of.
There was a lot of CCM in those days that I listened to and that God used greatly to minister to me and to help me grow.
Then, I backslid for a while and it was the Christian music that God used to convict me.
Today, with the exception of just a few artists, I don't listen to Christian music at all, just mainstream.
I find that there's a lot of mainstream music that God also uses. All mainstream music isn't good and some of it is downright awful and not conducive to growing in Christ, but there is plenty of good music out there, if you're willing to use discernmment.
There's actually a lot more to that story, but I haven't had my coffee yet.
Here is a parting question: what do you think of POD?
Honestly, I don't know enough about them to comment. Even though I can't stand that kind of music, the very few things I've heard about them seem to be good.
Mike
[Just cleaned up edited portions of Fiery's Post that survived in your quotes. Aaron
]
[ September 26, 2002, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
