RE: Contemporary Christian Music....

[Dr. Bob]

My plan as pastor of a mission ifb church was to categorize the songs - Worship, Seasonal, Praise, Testimonial - then subdivide that into fast/slow. Then I would plug these 4 types of songs (excluding invitation if I might have one) into a pattern for a service:

Welcome
Hymn #1 - Heavy-duty hymn of worship (Ex: This is my Father's World)
Pastoral Prayer
Hymn #2 - Pretty fast hymn of praise ()Ex: And Can it Be?)
Scripture
Hymn #3 - Song of testimony (Ex: Since I Have Been Redeemed)
Announcements
Offering
Special Music
Hymn #4 - Slow song of devotion (Ex: Near the Cross)
Message
Testimony verifying truth of Message
Closing hymn #5 - Fast, testimony so they go out humming (Ex: Trust and Obey)
(or invitation - typical bunch of 10-12 songs)

I did this for all 52 weeks of the year, trying to use a hymn/song no more than TWICE to insure great variety.

In the p.m. we often sang the same song for a whole month to learn it/teach it to the congregation, since most grew up in churches not singing these songs.

 

[Karen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
.........
Hymn #2 - .......
Scripture
Hymn #3 - Song of testimony (Ex: Since I Have Been Redeemed)
Announcements
Offering
Special Music
...........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah ha! I caught you!

One of my pet peeves about a service is sticking the announcements in the middle instead of at the beginning or end.
It is always jarring to focus on worship,
have announcements about this and that, and then go back to worship again.
My church usually does announcements at the very end.

Karen

 

[Cskokido]

Well…I am the new kid on the block, but I thought I might weigh in with my opinion on this subject.

I am reminded of a company I use to work for (who shall remain nameless). They had been around for years and had a set way of doing things. They had the mindset that it had worked well this long, there is no reason to change anything. They had a loyal customer base and things were going along just peachy for them.
Then one day they noticed that sales were dropping…and dropping…and dropping. Why?
It took awhile, (and a new CEO) to point out to them that they had not changed the style of their product since day one. It had appealed to a select group of customers, but those customers were…well… they were dying. Their product did not appeal to the new generation so sales were going down the tubes. They realized this almost too late.

I use this analogy because we are faced with the same dilemma. We have all of these old hymns and we expect them to appeal to everyone simply because we like them, our parents liked them our grandparents like them, etc. In the meantime people are dying daily and going to hell because we don't want to vary from the old way.
Let's face it, you will NOT get young people to your church singing "It is well with my soul". They just don't cause them to flock in to hear the gospel. Now I am not taking anything away from this type of music. I sing these songs with the choir, my wife is the church organist, and we love these old songs, but I love CCM as well. When in the car we may go over one of the songs we will be singing in the service coming up. OR we will tune into K-Love and belt out "My Redeemer" along with Nicole C Mullen (anyone that can listen to that and not be moved…I doubt their salvation), or my personal favorites Third Day. I love the music of those guys.

The point is, all of these songs have one thing in common. They all are singing praises to the Lord. I say anything that lifts His name and gives Him glory is OK in my book. After all, this is why we were saved to begin with…. To glorify the Lord.

My last thought is this. I work with a lady who is a good Christian (in words and deeds) and I ma not doubting her salvation. She attends an IFB church that is KJVO church, and she is very critical of the CCM that I have coming from the radio on my desk. In the meantime she has her radio tuned to the local country music station. Now I ask you…. which station is honoring God more?

So…there it is. As always, your mileage may vary.

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: Cskokido ]

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: Cskokido ]

 

[JonC]

Wow! This is a blast from the past.

My dad never liked contemp. music (but my mom did). Her fav. was Dallas Holm (Rise Again) and the Gaithers at the time. We even saw D.H. at 6 flags one summer.

It was too much for my dad. Just didn't sound like Christian music. (He liked J.D. Sumner a lot though).

I like contempary music, but I feel a lot of it is entertainment rather than worship (which is not a bad thing, as entertainment goes). And there are some great worship songs out there, Sonic Flood gomes to mind.

Still, I love current gospel groups, like "Gold City", and traditional hymns also.

I'm really starting to miss the traditional hymns in my church.

 

[Kathy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cskokido:
I am reminded of a company I use to work for (who shall remain nameless). They had been around for years and had a set way of doing things. They had the mindset that it had worked well this long, there is no reason to change anything. They had a loyal customer base and things were going along just peachy for them.
Then one day they noticed that sales were dropping…and dropping…and dropping. Why?
It took awhile, (and a new CEO) to point out to them that they had not changed the style of their product since day one. It had appealed to a select group of customers, but those customers were…well… they were dying. Their product did not appeal to the new generation so sales were going down the tubes. They realized this almost too late.

I use this analogy because we are faced with the same dilemma. We have all of these old hymns and we expect them to appeal to everyone simply because we like them, our parents liked them our grandparents like them, etc. In the meantime people are dying daily and going to hell because we don't want to vary from the old way.
Let's face it, you will NOT get young people to your church singing "It is well with my soul". They just don't cause them to flock in to hear the gospel. [snip] My last thought is this. I work with a lady who is a good Christian (in words and deeds) and I ma not doubting her salvation. She attends an IFB church that is KJVO church, and she is very critical of the CCM that I have coming from the radio on my desk. In the meantime she has her radio tuned to the local country music station. Now I ask you…. which station is honoring God more?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me understand this correctly...you are equating "old" soul stirring hymns to a company that has lost it's edge in marketing? I'm sorry, but there is no comparison. The church is not a marketing strategy...The church as a whole is not responsible for witnessing to people, WE ARE, individually.

Music should not define where you attend church, the doctrinal stand should be your utmost qualification in searching for a church.

I have found myself at the crossroads where CCM is concerned. I believed that the "old" hymns were boring. Since joining BB.com and reading in this very forum, I began to test the CCM I listened to...I found that MOST of the songs I listened to promoted a false doctrine and were charismatic in nature. I have successfully weaned myself off of CCM and I have found that I LOVE the old hymns! I want to learn each and every hymn in our Hymnal! So you see...what you may perceive as old and boring may be new and exciting if you've never taken the time to learn them and really read the words! Some of them are 2 minute sermons full of sound doctrine!

I hope I didn't come off too harsh, I just couldn't see equating the matter as you did. Welcome to the BB by the way!

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Kathy]

P.S. That nice IFB lady you work with that you say listens to country music and is critical of CCM...well, that is just judgmental if you ask me...it's like saying "well she does that, so I'm gonna do this!" I personally would rather hear a song about love, country style, then false doctrine any day.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Cskokido]

Kathy,

It is OK. I did not take your post as harsh at all. I do think you might have read my post wrong though.

I do not find the "old" hymns boring as you say. If you will read my post you will see that I do enjoy them very much. My wife and I absolutly love to sing "Great is thy Faithfulness".
But, some young people feel that they don't fit in with the congregation because that kind of music just don't appeal to them. Most CCM is not compromising the gospel, just presenting it in a different format.
Music can be a powerful tool in reaching lost souls. You have to remember, some of the unsaved teenagers listen to rock music because they feel the artists are speaking for them. If we can get a young person into church, and they hear music that sounds similar to what they listen to, they are more apt to pay attention and hear what is being said.
On the other hand, if you play only hymns all of the time, they become bored, the mind starts to wander thinking how much longer is this going to be...when will they ever stop. I wonder what is on MTV right now... You just lost this person.
This is not saying not to play the old hymns, because they have a part in the service as well. They can stir the soul as much as some sermons.

Now in regards to the lady I work with. I was not being judgemental, just making an observation. Which is lifting up the Father more? A song singing praises to Him that has a fast beat, or one about your friends in low places. (Sorry Garth)

In His Service

 

[Kathy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cskokido:
Which is lifting up the Father more? A song singing praises to Him that has a fast beat, or one about your friends in low places. (Sorry Garth)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, I think you owe Mr. Brooks an apology!!! LoL!

I hear ya tho...I know exactly where you are coming from, and I didn't mean to imply that you thought hymns were boring. I believe tho, that what should grab a person's heart is doctrine, not music...salvation is not based on feelings and emotions, it is based on the rock solid truth of the Bible. Of course, your salvation experience can be emotional but it's not proof of salvation. The proof of salvation is in black and white in the Bible.

Either way, I appreciated your thoughts on this matter...I too used to feel EXACTLY as you do (just a few shorts months ago in fact).

I pray that we can all be a light in this dark world and rely solely upon the inspired Word of God to pass the gospel on to a dying world.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Cskokido]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I pray that we can all be a light in this dark world and rely solely upon the inspired Word of God to pass the gospel on to a dying world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya know Kathy, that is a very profound statement. God can use each of us in different ways, but each of them to win the lost to His kingdom. Thanks for your thoughts as well.

 

[EFORC1]

Hi there Guys!! First of all I am a 47 year old Youth Director, wow that age is even hard to type , over the years I have really listened to all kinds of CCM and have come to the conclusion that there IS a lot of really good and inspirational music out there, I have also discovered that there is a LOT of music that is deemed CCM that is not Christian. I mean, that it dosen't really say anything about "Jesus". The music might say something about GOD, but whose GOD does it refer to. Nowadays there are so many people preaching a GOD, the question is, is it the Music GOD? the Money God? or is it referring to the Alha and Omega, the Father of my Lord Jesus CHrist. That should be the question. I have discovered that Jesus Christ is being preached in some of the CCM, and therefore, if it is, and it is winning and drawing our Youth closer to Jesus then so be it!! Praise God for another tool!
I enjoy good hymns, most by the way, are dated back in the 1800's, just think about what the older Christians in that time thought about the then new hymns like, The Old Rugged Cross, I'll Fly Away, and etc. when they were first introduced...makes you say to yourself hmmmmm...
Please, we older Christians need to be wise and listen to what the CCM industry is preaching. If it is Jesus, then Praise God that he has provided another tool. I so love our Youth, and Praise God for everything that he sends my way to help introduce them to a God that wants to introduce them to his SON, JESUS!

 

[EFORC1]

Hey there "AteenageChristian" good thread and "Listen very Carefully" and may God Bless you"

[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: EFORC1 ]

[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: EFORC1 ]

 

[Megs84]

I know we have gone on and on about this topic but i would just like to mention a few things. I am part of the praise team at my church who are in charge of leading worship on Sunday mornings. Don't get me wrong, I went through middle school singing hymns and they are really wonderful. The only thing is.... My church is bent on reaching a new generation. They secular music today is more upbeat and therefore to reach lost teens and other younger people you have to have music that they can identify with. If you take them from there secular music directly to old hymns THEY might find them boring and dull. Mind you that is not my opinion but i have many friends who feel that way. CCM is not there to mislead people, it is just the closest thing for new christians to keep them interested in the faith and to keep them thinking about God. I hope this wasn't confusing and i'm not trying to start an argument

Just wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[superdave]

Good points on this thread!

Just like the hymnal, there is plenty of good music that would be considered CCM, and there is plenty of trash as well. You have groups that are Christian in name only, and you have Christian groups that don't play "Christian" music. You have to be very selective in what you choose to use in a worship service, but I don't think the style of the music is as much of a Biblical issue as some people say it is. Even the best preachers and teachers I have heard on music have to leave the realm of Biblical teaching and get into a bunch of humanistic, tradition laced mumbo jumbo to explain what styles of music are "God Honoring" They reveal their own ingorance in most cases, more than any Biblical truth regarding music. There is a balance somwhere, between throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and throwing out all guidleines on musical choice altogether, although I have yet to find it in a particular church. I guess I need to start my own. Think I'll call it Unrealistic Ideal Baptist Church, and change my name to Pastor Perfect

 

[Daniel]

Seriously, ask the Holy Spirit what He thinks? If there's no unconfessed sin in your life, He will speak clearly in that still small voice. (If, however, you are hardened to sin and sinful things, you will NOT hear Him...you will be doing an exercise in futility...) So many of the music questions could be answered following this simple truth...but few will HONESTLY do it because they WANT WHAT THEY WANT regardless of what God thinks.

 

[Helen]

Just a quick note here. Because I have been a deaf interpreter, and now because my husband is invited to speak in a number of churches, we have been to many and seen many types of services. Through it all, there is something that has really come to bother me -- when the music becomes entertainment.

There are churches with a band up in front playing loudly and the singers bouncing around just like in a rock concert. That is not church. That is entertainment. That might be fine at a youth assembly, but that is not what church is for.

I love the old hymns and I also love a lot of the newer songs. So it is not a 'type of music' objection, really. It is the way the music is used. Church is a gathering place for believers after being out in the weird, noisy world all week. We don't need more noise Sunday morning. We need a chance to breathe deeply, quiet down, and worship the Lord together, in both music and prayer, and then also listen to some solid Bible teaching.

I know I'm mostly dreaming. But there are churches, still, like this, and I love it when we end up in one in our travels. What is interesting is that it is in the western culture countries where the music becomes entertainment in many churches. We have never found that in churches that have to struggle to survive. The people there are simply grateful to be able to gather and to be together in prayer and learning and singing for a bit.

I'm seriously wondering if, in trying to 'reach out' to some, we are changing the message of the gospel? I have heard lyrics that make me cringe as far as doctrine is concerned...

Just my two cents' worth.

 

[Barnabas H.]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Helen: There are churches with a band up in front playing loudly and the singers bouncing around just like in a rock concert. That is not church. That is entertainment. That might be fine at a youth assembly, but that is not what church is for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen to that Helen!

 

[cuffy7]

Hello, I am 16 years old and pretty new to this site. I like much of CCM, but I'm finding that the lyrics get emptier and emptier every year. A few that never get old for me, though, are Stephen Curtis Chapman, Michael Card, Michael W. Smith and Phillips, Craig & Dean. I'm not as worried about the venue that is used to communicate the music, but rather the lyrical quality. With that said, hard rock, and much of rap and pop have consistently shallow lyrics. That is why I refrain from listening to it, not because of the style, per se, but the poor quality I associate with it. (and nothing can beat most hymns for lyrical quality, though, I recognize there are a few with doctrinal problems)

 

[Mike McK]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cuffy7:
...With that said, hard rock, and much of rap and pop have consistently shallow lyrics. That is why I refrain from listening to it, not because of the style, per se, but the poor quality I associate with it. (and nothing can beat most hymns for lyrical quality, though, I recognize there are a few with doctrinal problems)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure how you can say that hard rock has shallow lyrics when there are artists like Alice Cooper, Bride, WhiteHeart and many other Christian hard rock bands out there who have very well written, well though out, though provoking lyrics.

Perhaps you're just listening to the wrong bands.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

[Mike McK]

bump

 

[Abiyah]

Originally posted by Smoke_Eater:
[qb]I'm not sure how you can say that hard rock has
shallow lyrics when there are artists like Alice
Cooper, Bride, WhiteHeart and many other
Christian hard rock bands out there who have
very well written, well though out, though
provoking lyrics.

Perhaps you're just listening to the wrong bands.

Mike
http://www.keylife.org

Alice Cooper is a Christian artist? I thought it was
a wild, worldly extra-hard rock band! I had no
idea! And I didn't know the others you men-
tioned were Christian groups.

My tastes in music are fairly eclectic: I enjoy the
old songs as well as the new. But my CCM is
limited to what my station will play, and they are
very selective.

I have been amused and pleased, however, when
a young person has exclaimed over a "new song"
they have heard or found, and when I see or hear
it, I find myself seeing/hearing a song from the
long past, once put out to pasture, and brought
back into play by the youth.

Since starting to read this thread, someone early
in it mentioned the song, "Face to Face." I have
been humming it since. I love the old songs.
They often fill the bill for my musical hunger.
But contemporary songs fill that bill at other
times, as do classical hymns and anthems, the
old "Sunday school songs," and spirituals.

Lately, I have found myself learning to sing
the blues, with my "learning song" being "Some-
times I Feel Like a Motherless Child." I get a lot
of joy out of singing it many different ways,
filling it in here and there, changing the timing
and tune, changing the mood.

Music speaks to those deep places in all of us,
and each one has a diffeent idea of what songs
fill a need within them. While I admit that my
spiritual preferrences lead me far from certain
artists, a song is what the listener makes it.
Still, I find it interesting that musical tastes are
often used to disqualify certain music as
spiritually uplifting.

Specifically to Smoke Eater, you have mentioned
many groups and singers as singing Christian
music--singers I would not normaly bother to
listen to. I don't like Country music, but that is
mainly because I don't like the subject matter
and too many I had heard in my early years
could not sing on key. Furthermore, the nasal
quality was irritating.

But you have sparked my interest. I shall check
out some of these people you have mentioned.