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Ready To Harvest video - Origins of Christian Denominations
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All those that depart from the original differentiate themselves by renaming.
This is the test of the Fathers, and the guide to little children and the humble.
“The Article, In one Holy Catholic Church,’ on which, though one might say many things, we will speak but briefly. It is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other; and because it teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men’s knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly… for this cause the Faith has securely delivered to thee now the Article, And in one Holy Catholic Church;’ that thou mayest avoid their wretched meetings, and ever abide with the Holy Church Catholic in which thou wast regenerated. And if ever thou art sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord’s House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 18:23,26 (A.D. 350).
Before all the splits the Church was called Catholic under the Chair of Peter.
- “ It is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other. “
- “ and because it teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men’s knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly. “
- “ but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God. “
Cyril Bishop of Jerusalem was teaching catechumens here, those new to the Catholic Faith. Telling them how to discern false churches from the true Church.
Today the powerful phenomenon still takes place.
Ask in any town or city ‘Where is the “Catholic Church “? Just say “Catholic Church “ and see where it is they direct you.
“For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom, to the knowledge of which a few spiritual, men attain in this life…–not to speak of this wisdom, which you do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations…so does her authority…the succession of priests…[a]nd so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.” Augustine.
Even asked at an Orthodox Church and they claim to be “Catholic”, where the Catholic Church is and they directed me to a Catholic Church.
Orthodox claim to be “Catholic”, but they aren’t called “Catholic”, and if you ask them where the “Catholic” Church is, they don’t point to their church but to a Catholic Church.
This is a powerful phenomenon anybody can try today anywhere, seen it so many times when travelling, and I am directed to my Church every time.
This is the test of the Fathers, and the guide to little children and the humble.
“The Article, In one Holy Catholic Church,’ on which, though one might say many things, we will speak but briefly. It is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other; and because it teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men’s knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly… for this cause the Faith has securely delivered to thee now the Article, And in one Holy Catholic Church;’ that thou mayest avoid their wretched meetings, and ever abide with the Holy Church Catholic in which thou wast regenerated. And if ever thou art sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord’s House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 18:23,26 (A.D. 350).
Before all the splits the Church was called Catholic under the Chair of Peter.
- “ It is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other. “
- “ and because it teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men’s knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly. “
- “ but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God. “
Cyril Bishop of Jerusalem was teaching catechumens here, those new to the Catholic Faith. Telling them how to discern false churches from the true Church.
Today the powerful phenomenon still takes place.
Ask in any town or city ‘Where is the “Catholic Church “? Just say “Catholic Church “ and see where it is they direct you.
“For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom, to the knowledge of which a few spiritual, men attain in this life…–not to speak of this wisdom, which you do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations…so does her authority…the succession of priests…[a]nd so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.” Augustine.
Even asked at an Orthodox Church and they claim to be “Catholic”, where the Catholic Church is and they directed me to a Catholic Church.
Orthodox claim to be “Catholic”, but they aren’t called “Catholic”, and if you ask them where the “Catholic” Church is, they don’t point to their church but to a Catholic Church.
This is a powerful phenomenon anybody can try today anywhere, seen it so many times when travelling, and I am directed to my Church every time.
Catholic meant Universal Church. NOT Rome but representing all of the redeemed of the true Church of Christ, regardless of labeled as baptists, methodists, calvinists arnianians etc
Catholic means universal sure, but it also is the name of a very distinct Church.
Read these Church Fathers again and you realise they aren’t using the term Catholic to describe a loose or nebulous affiliation of churches.
“You think that you make a very acute remark when you affirm the name Catholic to mean universal, not in respect to the communion as embracing the whole world, but in respect to the observance of all Divine precepts and of all the sacraments, as if we (even accepting the position that the Church is called Catholic because it honestly holds the whole truth, of which fragments here and there are found in some heresies) rested upon the testimony of this word’s signification, and not upon the promises of God, and so many indisputable testimonies of the truth itself, our demonstration of the existence of the Church of God in all nations.” Augustine, To Vincent the Rogatist, 93:7,23 (A.D. 403).
Just in case you didn’t catch it.
“Inasmuch, I repeat, as this is the case, we believe also in the Holy Church, [intending thereby] assuredly the Catholic. For both heretics and schismatics style their congregations churches. But heretics, in holding false opinions regarding God, do injury to the faith itself; while schismatics, on the other hand, in wicked separations break off from brotherly charity, although they may believe just what we believe. Wherefore neither do the heretics belong to the Church catholic, which loves God; nor do the schismatics form a part of the same.” Augustine, On Faith and Creed, 10:21 (A.D. 393).
This is the Catholic Church under the Chair of Peter in Rome.
This is Augustine’s point, everyone wants to be called Catholic.
“And so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.” Augustine.
WHICH had already gone apostate before time of Augustine, and who made the final and final and complete apostasy against true Gospel when she went against the reformation and Pauline justification for works based salvation, as Paul stated "another gospel"
No, it didn’t go apostate before Augustine. It was at this time that Catholic Church determined the Canon of the Bible in her Councils.
The Protestant rebellion was when the real apostasy kicked in, first they apostatised against the Catholic Church, then they all apostatised against each other with countless human founded churches.
Protestantism was “another gospel “and another gospel and another gospel and so on to this day “. It was a house divided from the beginning and never stopped dividing in conflicting traditions of men.
The Catholic Church remains, the Bible comes to us only through the Catholic Church, so only the Catholic Church has the Authority to teach what it means.
All the human traditions of Protestantism had nothing to do with the Bible, so I don’t trust any of the countless conflicting interpretations and doctrines from that mess of human traditions.
The entire 66 inspired books of the canon were all written by end of the first century, and pretty much all but 4 were fully agreed upon early to mid second century, only onestook bit longer were Hebrews and Revelation as author not sure of fully, and some had issues with James and his view on works, , and some thought 2 peter was a different author, but by end of second century all canonized books fully accepted, Rome never gave to us the scriptutres, but did put into their canon the spurious and not inspired Apocrypha
The whole process was Catholic, and the first declared Canon was 73 books by Pope Damasus. The Latin Vulgate the first Bible. Which means protestants removed books from their bible.
The Bible remained the same 73 book Canon for over 1000 years, until protestants came along thinking they could change it to suit themselves.
Luther even removed James and Revelation from his personal bible.
“Likewise it has been said: Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis one book, Exodus one book, Leviticus one book, Numbers one book, Deuteronomy one book, Josue Nave one book, Judges one book, Ruth one book, Kings four books, Paralipomenon two books, Psalms one book, Solomon three books, Proverbs one book, Ecclesiastes one book, Canticle of Canticles one book, likewise Wisdom one book, Ecclesiasticus one book. Likewise the order of the Prophets. Isaias one book, Jeremias one book,with Ginoth, that is, with his lamentations, Ezechiel one book,Daniel one book, Osee one book, Micheas one book, Joel one book, Abdias one book, Jonas one book, Nahum one book, Habacuc one book, Sophonias one book, Aggeus one book, Zacharias one book, Malachias one book. Likewise the order of the histories. Job one book, Tobias one book, Esdras two books, Esther one book, Judith one book, Machabees two books. Likewise the order of the writings of the New and eternal Testament, which only the holy and Catholic Church supports. Of the Gospels, according to Matthew one book, according to Mark one book, according to Luke one book, according to John one book. The Epistles of Paul [the apostle] in number fourteen. To the Romans one, to the Corinthians two, to the Ephesians one, to the Thessalonians two, to the Galatians one, to the Philippians one, to the Colossians one, to Timothy two, to Titus one, to Philemon one, to the Hebrews one. Likewise the Apocalypse of John, one book. And the Acts of the Apostles one book. Likewise the canonical epistles in number seven. Of Peter the Apostle two epistles, of James the Apostle one epistle, of John the Apostle one epistle, of another John, the presbyter, two epistles, of Jude the Zealut, the Apostle one epistle.” Pope Damasus (regn. A.D. 366-384), Decree of the Council of Rome, The Canon of Scripture (A.D. 382).
The Apocrypha were NEVER accepted until included in the canon by Rome, as there are in those books know issues between its false doctrine and theology as compared and contrasted with the 66 true canonized books, as Rome only adopted them and added them in to try to support in them Rome own errors and heresies
The Canon by Rome was the first Bible.
As the Pope said.
“what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun.”
He was speaking for the whole Church.
The Bible is Catholic Tradition, all 66 books in Protestant bibles were determined by the Catholic Church.
The true church of Christ was founded on day of Pentecost, and was no papacy Roman Catholics church until several centuries later, much latetr after canon already was established
There was no bible until centuries later, Christianity was not Bible alone in these times, but there was the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
There was a Papacy starting with Peter.
St. Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: “I say to you,” He says, “that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven.” (Matthew 16:18-19) And again He says to him after His resurrection: “Feed my sheep.” (John 21:17) On him He builds the Church, and to him He gives the command to feed the sheep; and although He assigns a like power to all the Apostles, yet He founded a single chair, and He established by His own authority a source and intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was; but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one Chair. So too, all are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the Apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can still be confident that he is in the Church?” -(On the Unity of the Catholic Church, 4, 246 A.D.)
Dave G
Well-Known Member
"The word pope is derived ultimately from the Greek πάππας[1] (páppas[2]) originally an affectionate term meaning "father", later referring to a bishop or patriarch.[3] The earliest record of the use of this title is in regard to the Patriarch of Alexandria, Pope Heraclas of Alexandria (232–248)[4][5] in a letter written by his successor, Pope Dionysius of Alexandria, to Philemon, a Roman presbyter."
As Christians, we are not to call anyone "father", as all believers have one Father in Heaven:
"But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren.
And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ. " ( Matthew 23:8-10, Douai-Rhiems ).
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
The denominations began with false teachers who went out from the true churches as early as the latter part of the first century.
Paul warned of "wolves" who would come in as soon as he was gone, not sparing the flock.
Even in his time, there were "Judaizers" who began to teach obedience to the Law of Moses as a necessary component of being saved.
Later on, things began to go even farther... even the "early church fathers", if one reads the writings that have survived very carefully, began to teach a works-based salvation as soon as 150 A.D. ( if not earlier ).
And so it goes on, until the Lord comes again.
Paul warned of "wolves" who would come in as soon as he was gone, not sparing the flock.
Even in his time, there were "Judaizers" who began to teach obedience to the Law of Moses as a necessary component of being saved.
Later on, things began to go even farther... even the "early church fathers", if one reads the writings that have survived very carefully, began to teach a works-based salvation as soon as 150 A.D. ( if not earlier ).
And so it goes on, until the Lord comes again.
Peter NEVER claimed to be a Pope, all he ever claimed was the Apostle to the Jews, same way He claimed paul was Apostle to the Gentiles, so they had 2 Popes in Acts?
You missed the part where Peter was guided by heaven to bring the Gentiles into the Church in the first place. Peter was the first Apostle to the Gentiles, guided directly by heaven. Paul didn’t do this.
Peter showed his leadership role.
Peter functioned as Pope, before his office was called Pope.
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Except your so called Pope Himself Peter stated that God sent Him as head apostle to Jews, and Paul as such to Gentiles, so dual popes in Acts?
No, Paul was sent to concentrate on the Gentiles, yet still he was very much dealing with the Jews on his travels.
All apostles teach the same message, but they are not always sent to the same people.
Peter opened the door to the Gentiles guided by God the Father in Heaven, so he was the principle figure to both Jews and Gentiles.
Paul opposed Peter to his face because Peter showed partiality to the Jews over the Gentiles, which means Peter should have been ministering to Jew and Gentile alike.