The communion of saints has historically always been defined as 'the unifying nature of all who are in the body of Christ' both in heaven and on earth. It has never been connected to the Eucharist.
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Real Christianity
- Thread starter Psalty
- Start date
The communion of saints has historically always been defined as 'the unifying nature of all who are in the body of Christ' both in heaven and on earth. It has never been connected to the Eucharist.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
As I read through Eph 4:4-6 I am drawn to the unifying nature of all who are in the Body of Christ. These verses may have been the inspiration for the last stanza.
This is where I see the last stanza pointing. We see one Spirit, one church, one body, one forgiveness, one resurrection body and eternal life.
The original composers may have had both views, Eucharist & Body of Christ, in mind when they wrote this creed as it can be understood either way.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
When you say "historically always been defined as" are you saying on the RCC or also from Eastern Orthodox and Protestant views?
Psalty
Active Member
Im guessing from the 2nd/3rd century when it was formulated is what he meant
Psalty
Active Member
I love Eph 4:13. Its a good reminder of how we all will be unified, but that we are different stages of learning and belief.
I haven't read of other views regarding 'the communion of saints' other than this one. Catholic, Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and most Protestants interpret the "communion of saints" in the Apostles' Creed as the spiritual fellowship of all believers, both living on earth (Church Militant) and departed in faith (Church Triumphant), united in Christ.
If there are Protestants who view this part of the Apostles Creed to pertain to the Eucharist it's news to me.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The view is clear to me but I was curious as to your source.
I have not seen a list of verses that the composers of the creed used as their justification for what they wrote. Have you?
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1) As you probably know, there are two very different understandings: Jesus went to Abraham's bosom, a compartment of Hades, and Jesus came to earth. In the first view, Jesus gave the gift of perfection, allowing them to enter the third heaven. In the second view, Jesus gave the spiritual gifts to born anew believers. I believe the first view is correct, but either view may be correct.
2) Hopefully most believers know about Hades and Gehenna. If people do not know that at least some of our early translations, translated both places as if they were one place, shame on those who discipled them.
3) I always object to the use of Hell, as it represents false doctrine.
4) I have no idea what others might say is the "communion of saints." Every born anew believer that ever lived is a "saint" set apart by God into the spiritually body of Christ, the one loaf of 1 Corinthians 10:16-17. I believe in the fellowship of all those called out of darkness into Christ, as spiritual siblings of each other and of Christ.
5) I believe the forgiveness of sins is accomplished by the washing of regeneration, and NOT by imputation.
6) I believe everyone believing into Christ will not perish but have everlasting life.
The same scriptures as have previously referenced on this thread are agreed upon virtually by all who embrace the Apostles Creed to support this article of faith. All believers living on earth or in heaven are saints.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Walter the list of verses found earlier in this thread {post #13} were verses that I put together.
What I would like to know is if you are aware of a list that the composers used when writing the Creed. Did they list any verses?
I am not aware of any list of Scriptures the original composers of the creed used. The canon of the NT had not been determined yet. Although scripture was read in liturgy regularly, it probably was not yet developed into chapters and verses. That was done primarily for the use within liturgy, but someone better read on Early Church liturgy should comment on when.
The creed was a response to Gnostic heresy and also was used as a profession of faith prior to baptism.
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David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Yes, as I understand it, chapters were added in the 13th century, and verses in the 1550s. Chapters and verses certainly facilitate indicating which part of the bible is meant.
Real Christianity is Jesus living through you in this world.
It is no longer you that lives.
Although we retain our personalities, Jesus works through these unseen by the world, but sensed by the soul.
The slaves of Christ have their masters face. We are lead by Him to go out.
I saw Jesus suffering face on a drug addict homeless bloke, passed out against brick a wall. I gave him a burger and drink and told him get up eat it.
He saw Jesus give him a burger and drink, and after praying over him he was completely sober. We get these momentary glimpses of Jesus.
Later on up to about two years later, this young man come up to me one night and asked if I remembered him. And I couldn’t. He said he was the guy I prayed over and he had been going out many nights to find me to thank me. I told him who to thank, it’s Jesus.
He had gained weight to the point he did not look at all the same. And told me, from the moment I prayed over him his head was totally clear and resolute to get off drugs and he enter rehab the next day. His addiction was completely broken and said rehab was just formality. He got a good job with his father who he reconciled with, and he got happily married.
He encountered Jesus and I encountered Jesus.
Jesus is in us, but He also in the least of these suffering.
Pray to this end, that Jesus walks in you as though it is Jesus Himself walking the earth again in you. That it is no longer you that lives but Christ. Then be attentive to His prompting.
If you deny yourself and crucify self, then Jesus can fully act through you according to His Holy Will.
It is no longer you that lives.
Although we retain our personalities, Jesus works through these unseen by the world, but sensed by the soul.
The slaves of Christ have their masters face. We are lead by Him to go out.
I saw Jesus suffering face on a drug addict homeless bloke, passed out against brick a wall. I gave him a burger and drink and told him get up eat it.
He saw Jesus give him a burger and drink, and after praying over him he was completely sober. We get these momentary glimpses of Jesus.
Later on up to about two years later, this young man come up to me one night and asked if I remembered him. And I couldn’t. He said he was the guy I prayed over and he had been going out many nights to find me to thank me. I told him who to thank, it’s Jesus.
He had gained weight to the point he did not look at all the same. And told me, from the moment I prayed over him his head was totally clear and resolute to get off drugs and he enter rehab the next day. His addiction was completely broken and said rehab was just formality. He got a good job with his father who he reconciled with, and he got happily married.
He encountered Jesus and I encountered Jesus.
Jesus is in us, but He also in the least of these suffering.
Pray to this end, that Jesus walks in you as though it is Jesus Himself walking the earth again in you. That it is no longer you that lives but Christ. Then be attentive to His prompting.
If you deny yourself and crucify self, then Jesus can fully act through you according to His Holy Will.
Lord, let it begin with me
I wanted to say you did very well relating scripture to thus ancient profession of faith
While meditating on Matins (Morning Prayer) each morning I try to focus time particularly to these essential tenets of the Cristian Faith.
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When we carry out our daily duties in life, these offered for Jesus to act and do through us, this sensitises us to the prompts of Grace.
All the little duties like caring for family and friends and all we meet throughout the day are then training wheels for us to let go and allow Jesus to do and act.
Tell Jesus to take over, actively desiring it.
Sounds too simple, childish even, but it’s not. It’s child like.
Jesus achieves this thing, we can’t do it ourselves.
Other practical things of Christianity is charitable prayer, fasting and Almsgiving, which we are particularly reminded of in Lent.
Prayer, fasting and especially Almsgiving for the living, but also for the souls in purgatory.
We specially remember the souls of protestants and baptists in purgatory who have no one to pray for them.
Almsgiving on behalf of the souls in purgatory is extremely powerful.
Purgatory is very real, and is the least remembered field of charity. Many souls are abandoned to their full sentences, they pay to the last penny.
Alleviating these is a great act of charity, because their sufferings are great.
Prayer, fasting and especially Almsgiving for the living, but also for the souls in purgatory.
We specially remember the souls of protestants and baptists in purgatory who have no one to pray for them.
Almsgiving on behalf of the souls in purgatory is extremely powerful.
Purgatory is very real, and is the least remembered field of charity. Many souls are abandoned to their full sentences, they pay to the last penny.
Alleviating these is a great act of charity, because their sufferings are great.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
All of us should spend time each day thanking God for the many blessings He has given us.
I have to admit that having a good bible program was a big help in that.
“ Love one another as I have loved you “
Do we love others as Jesus loved us, no. Jesus sets a high standard only He can fulfill.
“ Without me, you can’t do nothing “
Divesting self allows Jesus full space to love others through us.
Jesus is extremely important in this Christian thing.
Do we love others as Jesus loved us, no. Jesus sets a high standard only He can fulfill.
“ Without me, you can’t do nothing “
Divesting self allows Jesus full space to love others through us.
Jesus is extremely important in this Christian thing.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
1 Timothy 4:13
Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.