Real Preaching/Real Theology ....at a Youth Camp!

[Havensdad]

(Moderators: Please do not move this to the "Youth" forum, as that is not a debate forum.)

As some of you know, I am on the board of a mid-size youth camp (well, that is probably overstated. I meet with other great pastors, eat free food, and do what they tell me, mostly!). The Camp is OneCamp 360, a 600-800 student camp that meets in the middle of July, in the Texas Baptist Encampment in Palacious..I have been absolutely thrilled with the direction we have been moving; deeper, richer, gospel-centered, and more theologically minded.

However, both this year and last year (when we began to shift our focus), we have heard from SEVERAL of the youth leaders, that the "teaching is too deep" that the doctrine is "too hard to understand." Personally, I believe youth have an easier time of understanding than adults, not harder. I think we should be challenging our teens, not pandering to those unwilling to engage.

So what do you think? Here is a link to one of the sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDah_QBe8hI


(On a side note, as the camera man and editor, I would love a critique or any suggestions from those experienced in videography! This is my first time doing anything big like this!)

 

[Baptist Believer]

I won't have time to look at your video until this evening, but I applaud the effort to challenge young minds with deeper teaching.

Too many youth ministries are glorified childcare programs that do little to nothing to prepare the next generation for life outside of the youth group bubble. That's why so many lose their "faith" (whatever that was) when they go to college and walk away from the church.

As someone who works as an adult volunteer and teacher in my church's youth ministry, I have been told by adults that I'm trying to go too deep with the students, but the most of the students can't get enough of it. They are dealing with real challenges and issues in their lives - as well as direct assaults to their faith - that their parents did not face. They hunger to understand and make connections that make sense to them, not just hear moralistic Bible stories without any context or connection to real life.

 

[Greektim]

(Moderators: Please do not move this to the "Youth" forum, as that is not a debate forum.)

As some of you know, I am on the board of a mid-size youth camp (well, that is probably overstated. I meet with other great pastors, eat free food, and do what they tell me, mostly!). The Camp is OneCamp 360, a 600-800 student camp that meets in the middle of July, in the Texas Baptist Encampment in Palacious..I have been absolutely thrilled with the direction we have been moving; deeper, richer, gospel-centered, and more theologically minded.

However, both this year and last year (when we began to shift our focus), we have heard from SEVERAL of the youth leaders, that the "teaching is too deep" that the doctrine is "too hard to understand." Personally, I believe youth have an easier time of understanding than adults, not harder. I think we should be challenging our teens, not pandering to those unwilling to engage.

So what do you think? Here is a link to one of the sessions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDah_QBe8hI


(On a side note, as the camera man and editor, I would love a critique or any suggestions from those experienced in videography! This is my first time doing anything big like this!)

Keep it up and rebuke those youth leaders who want to dumb down the gospel and rather throw pizza parties than challenge their teens.

 

[Havensdad]

I won't have time to look at your video until this evening, but I applaud the effort to challenge young minds with deeper teaching.

Too many youth ministries are glorified childcare programs that do little to nothing to prepare the next generation for life outside of the youth group bubble. That's why so many lose their "faith" (whatever that was) when they go to college and walk away from the church.

As someone who works as an adult volunteer and teacher in my church's youth ministry, I have been told by adults that I'm trying to go too deep with the students, but the most of the students can't get enough of it. They are dealing with real challenges and issues in their lives - as well as direct assaults to their faith - that their parents did not face. They hunger to understand and make connections that make sense to them, not just hear moralistic Bible stories without any context or connection to real life.

That has been my experience as well. The adults go, "You need to dumb it down! The youth can't understand!" While the youth come out of the same sermon saying, "That was awesome!"

I think the problem is the adults are used to sermons where they can sleep through half, and still get the point...

 

[Salty]

Look at the Awana Youth Program.

When I was a kid - I had to memorize the books of the OT in one sitting - now (I believe) its broken down into 3 sections. And this is the norm - fewer verses per section.

Not Good- we need to set our priorities

 

[go2church]

"Not wanting to be in God's presence is enough you have to meet the requirements", then gives four requirements of Psalm 24:4ff.

You may want to take your kids deeper, but is this really deeper or just differently bad.

Won't critique the style and delivery, that is just a matter of preference

 

[Havensdad]

"Not wanting to be in God's presence is enough you have to meet the requirements", then gives four requirements of Psalm 24:4ff.

You may want to take your kids deeper, but is this really deeper or just differently bad.

Won't critique the style and delivery, that is just a matter of preference

Yeah....

Apparently you didn't watch the whole video. What he said is absolutely true. God's requirements for entrance into His presence is absolute perfection. No real Christian disagrees with that!

 

[Baptist Believer]

I think the problem is the adults are used to sermons where they can sleep through half, and still get the point...

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I had a chance to watch the video. The pastor is a good communicator. He could reference things in the teenagers' lives without pretending he is a teenager. It gives him credibility.

If the adults think that sermon was too deep, they are in sad shape. It was a fairly traditional evangelistic sermon, although it used a non-traditional text to present the truth about the fallen human's estrangement from God.

Truly, who can stand before the LORD without the grace of God?

My only critique is that he did not mention how a person could experience personal daily transformation as they grow in grace. However, I only saw one sermon and you can't say everything in one sermon. I hope he continued the series and gave them instruction on discipleship.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[go2church]

Should have said, "Wanting to be in God's presence is not enough" bit different. I would argue that unless God's grace works on you, you don't won't to be in God's presence. The wanting is a work of grace and though far from complete is enough. Perhaps a semantics point.

 

[Havensdad]

Should have said, "Wanting to be in God's presence is not enough" bit different. I would argue that unless God's grace works on you, you don't won't to be in God's presence. The wanting is a work of grace and though far from complete is enough. Perhaps a semantics point.

The wanting is not enough. You can want to be in God's presence, but desire it less than your sin, and refuse to repent unto Christ. Wanting is not enough. You desire must be according to God's terms.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The wanting is not enough. You can want to be in God's presence, but desire it less than your sin, and refuse to repent unto Christ. Wanting is not enough. You desire must be according to God's terms.

Something I have thought about for a long time is that God gives people the option to ignore Him in this life. There is a separation between humankind and God where we are able to live in our corrupted condition without being in trauma and agony. When, in this life, we find ourselves in the manifest presence of God through a special act of revelation, we like Isaiah (see Isaiah 6 - especially verse 5) cannot endure His presence without being changed. I have had the privilege of several experiences in corporate worship where God met with us with such intensity and presence that everyone in the room was spontaneously on their knees in reverence. There is a sense of dread and love at the same time, although it is hard to explain. But in those moments, people's lives are changed.

Fortunately, God usually "hides" His glory from us in a way that doesn't overwhelm us while He calls us into His Kingdom. There is coming a day when God's glory and holiness will be revealed to all those who live (and have ever lived) upon the earth, where every knee will bow and tongue confess that He is Lord. However, there will be many who set themselves against God and do not want to share in His life and glory.The consuming holiness of God will burn away the chaff and reveal the children of God in perfected form. Those who dislike/hate God will be found to have nothing in them that is redeemed... I think this is what the Bible talks about with the doctrine of the Lake of Fire. Those who are opposed to God will not be able to stand His holiness and will suffer as one suffers in flames.

Who can stand before God? Only those who are being redeemed and transformed.

 

[go2church]

So it's possible to want God but not really want God. I would suggest we are splitting hairs. If you want a god of your own making, then you don't really want God. Just seems a long way to make a simpler point concerning salvation. Just my opinion. With that and a couple of bucks you can get a cup of coffee.

 

[Havensdad]

So it's possible to want God but not really want God. I would suggest we are splitting hairs. If you want a god of your own making, then you don't really want God. Just seems a long way to make a simpler point concerning salvation. Just my opinion. With that and a couple of bucks you can get a cup of coffee.

Yeah, except that hair is necessary to split, cause people are very confused about it... "But, I love Jesus!"....as defined by them.

His point was well made, I think.

 

[go2church]

Okay, if you think so.

He initially jumps over grace with his four requirements, then jumps back to grace because the requirements are beyond our ability. I found the sermon labored and longer not necessarily deeper.

 

[Havensdad]

Okay, if you think so.

He initially jumps over grace with his four requirements, then jumps back to grace because the requirements are beyond our ability. I found the sermon labored and longer not necessarily deeper.

The requirements of the law necessarily precede the Gospel. He did not "jump over" anything. Grace necessitates the presupposition that there were requirements that were not kept.

In a Gospel-centered sermon, Grace (the cross) should be the last thing...Sin-wrath-judgment-mercy.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

However, both this year and last year (when we began to shift our focus), we have heard from SEVERAL of the youth leaders, that the "teaching is too deep" that the doctrine is "too hard to understand." Personally, I believe youth have an easier time of understanding than adults, not harder. I think we should be challenging our teens, not pandering to those unwilling to engage.

I've never understood this logic, particularly since there's a video on Youtube of a five year old explaining the Westminster Shorter Catechism. Using age appropriate lessons, mnemonic devices, and bullet points, our children had a better grasp on Christian theology by age ten than most of the people I talk to
here on BaptistBoard.

In our church, we don't even segregate our teens. We throw them right in the deep end. If they don't understand, then they ask. That's how they learn.

Kids are a lot smarter than a lot of people give them credit for and adults who say kids can't grasp these things are really saying that they can't teach these things.

 

[go2church]

Okay that's fine