Really, REALLY struggling with calvinism

Emily,

Our problem on this Earth is that we demand that God give us an answer that we can choose to understand. With the concern of Calvinism: both the Freewill Man and God's Sovereignty are emphasized in the Bible. However, God does not tell us which one takes priority 'from our point of view". He tells us 'His point of view'.

Personally, I have met Calvinists that 'have never' come to salvation. In their mind, they have been saved since they were infants.

The problem is not in elevating the doctrines of Calvin over the doctrines of others. The problem is where do you fit in regards to God's Salvation? Have you accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior? Your salvation is more important than whether or not your doctrines agree with someone else. (Do stay biblical). Don't worry about what a tract (book) says about God. Worry about what God says about God (Bible).

I doubt that we can understand what God intended us to understand about 'Calvinism'. But, we can know that God loves us and died for us. Without personal salvation, all other questions are not important. Did the woman at the well say, "Wait - I am not thirsty right now."? When you thirst for the salvation of God - drink His Salvation. Let others worry about what the 'order of salvation' was.

God bless

 

All but one of those verses refer to a freewill offering.

How do you balance your idea of free will with this?

 

El,

That's a pretty good answer except for that first sentence. The problem is not that we demand too much from God. The problem is in putting everything that He has told us together. Whether Calvinist or Arminian or whatever we are, we take the Biblical data and try to putit together in such a way that we (and others) can better grasp of what we have been taught. When God gives revelation that is hard to grasp then we need to wrestle with it.

 

John, chapter 12

"32": And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.


Romans, chapter 5
"18": Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Acts, chapter 17
30: And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

Where do you get your theology from.
The Bible says "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
It does not say (as you imply) "Give up your sins and you shall be saved." Show me in the Bible where that teaching is found??
A person is dead in sins because he has not been made alive by the power of the Holy Spirit who comes and lives within him at the point of salvation, that is when he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. There is only one thing required for salvation--belief, and that belief involves free will. There is a choice required for man to make. He must make a choice--a choice whether to refuse Christ or to accept Him. What choice have you made? Was it of your own free will, or did someone force you to do it?
Beleive on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
--Do you believe, or have you been forced?
DHK

 

Emily;
I will be honest, I think your heart is desiring to be in a church that is full of love and worship for the Lord and where they show it and feel it. You need some old time church where they have rejoicing and praising God in their services and I am not talking about the Penecostal either. There are Baptist churches that believe that Jesus died for all and we must accept Him or we will die and go to a devils hell. In these churches we have a religion that is something you can feel and where this rejoicing flows from breast to breast and you go home feeling so good in your heart and fed from Mother Jerusalem's table that it will last you a few days until you can get back to eat again. This is why it is needful that the resurrection and going to Heaven needs to be preached more than C/A. I am expecting when I die that God will send angels to gather up my soul and take it to Heaven until the resurrection when He will also resurrect my body in a glorified manner and join my soul back with my body and then both soul and body will take a heavenly flight to meet the Lord in the air and forever to be with Him where we will sing with the angels and sing a new song " I have been redeemed both soul and body". Also, we will live in a mansion that the Lord Himself prepared for us. Blessings again,

 

DHK,

Please, deal with what I say. Nowhere have I said that one does not have to believe to be saved. Of course we have to believe to be saved. I chose to believe after God made me alive.

Now, to be clear, do you believe that a person can hold onto his sins and still believe unto salvation?


And you never answered my question to you - a lot of people don't know for sure about going to Heaven and don't want to find out. What is the difference between you and them? Why did you want to know when so many others don't?

 

Simple...why does God draw some and not others? Isa. 66:2

 

Mankind has "human will", not freewill. The notion of "freewill" is the oldest lie on earth, literally. It is the very first lie Satan told to Eve, that if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, she would be "like God". In context, that must mean that she would have the ability to always choose the good over the evil. She would no longer have to rely on God. We know how that turned out. What is so insidious about sin is that we do not understand we are being controlled.

The very term "freewill" implies an ability to choose that is free from "outside influence". Those who see "freewill", reject that God fundamentally changes the person prior to belief. No influence from God. What they fail to understand, according to scripture, is that mankind has a tremendous amount of eternal influence regarding every decision they make. We are influenced by satan and his demons. We are influenced by our own sin natures and the sinful natures of others in our lives.

Christ stated it plainly, that whoever sins is a slave to sin. A slave does the will of his master. Slaves have no "freewill". Paul picks up this theme in Romans and uses a lot of "slave" language to descibe how a person is influenced by the sin in their lives. He states it plainly, we will be slaves to sin or slaves to God. We were bought with a price. As a slave was bought at the slave market.

Once again, no "freewill", just "human will" subject to all sorts of influences.

peace to youraise:

 

We were labeled free will by others. I am an Old Regular Baptist.

 

Then you have a wrong concept of salvation. I was made alive the moment I was born into God's family which is the same time I believed. They are one and the same.

I am a sinner saved by grace.
Do you believe that you have reached sinless perfection? Are you as holy as God is holy? Nowhere in the Bible does it say that one must repent of his sins to be saved. It is impossible for one to repent of his sins. Tell me: can you remember all of the sins that you have ever committed from your childhood to this time, and then repent of each and every one of them, one by one? Ridiculous! The Bible says you must be born again; not to repent of all your sins. It demands repentance, but not of all your sins.
What is repentance?
Repentance is a change of attitude toward God.
Once my life was in a state of rebellion to God. I repented. Now I no longer live a life of rebellion against God, but rather a life of obedience to God. My attitude toward God's authority has changed. That is repentance.
Do I still sin? Of course I sin. I wouldn't be human if didn't.
Consider 1John 1:8-10. If you say you have no sin you make Christ a liar and there is no truth in you. Are you in that class?

Why do you want me to answer for other people. I am not a mind reader. Most of the world is unsaved. Go and ask them. The problem with many Calvinists is their lack of evangelism for the very reason of the type of question that you are asking.

Jesus said "Lift up your eyes and behold; the fields are white unto harvest."
He meant that there are multitudes out there that do want to know. All that you have to do is take the gospel to them and ask them if they would like to hear about Jesus; hear about how to have their sins forgiven. What a wonderful message we have.
We are commanded to take the message into all the world (Mat.28:19,20).
DHK

 

Interesting notion canadyjd,

But man was made in God’s likeness and image and that is why we have free will. When Satan promised eve to be “like God” it meant to have the knowledge of good and evil but there is only one God and He is good and can not be compared to. So for how it turned out is we fall short and must choose between a life with God as our Lord to be with Him in His perfect Kingdom or we can have the alternative with Satan.

The term freewill implies a free choice, why can’t one still be made along with outside influences?

Why are we only being influenced then? As a compatibilitist folly in logic if you where to ask me.

So I will choose to be a slave to Christ and then not to fear because then I have the inheritance of God’s kingdom as a son being in Christ and in Christ I am free indeed. raise: :Fish:

Nice try!

and peace to you

 

DHK,

Again, please address what I actually say. I did not say that I have reached sinless perfection. You say that you "no longer live a life of rebellion against God, but rather a life of obedience to God". Exactly how can you live a life of obedience to God while holding on to your sins?

And, I don't want you to answer for anyone but yourself. I'm not asking why others don't come to Christ. I know why others do not come to Christ. I am asking what makes you different - why did you come to Christ?

 

Because it is no longer "free". A slave does the will of his master. A slave does not choose to serve a new master, in fact he cannot. A slave is purchased by the new master and then submits his will to his new master.

Christ purchased us, took posession of us by giving His Holy Spirit to us, and makes His will known to us through His Word and by His Spirit. We respond as a slave should, we obey by repentence, belief and faithful service.
peace to youraise:

 

So are you saying that you DON"T believe that we have a free will to accept or reject salvation?

 

But it says He purchased all men with His blood so we should all be His servant according to that.

 

I say we have a choice. The word freewill is a denomination of which has a different practice than we do. We are Old Regular Baptist and they would jump on me if I called myself a freewill.

 

Where does it say that? Acts 20:28 is the closest I could find and it says He purchased the church with His blood.

 

I looked, BBob, but I couldn't find the verse that says Jesus purchased all men with His blood.

I find in Acts 20:28 that the church has been purchased with Christ's blood. I find in Rev. 5:9 the saints singing that the Lamb did purchase with His blood "men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation". I find in Rev. 14:4-5 the 144,000 "first fruits" that had been purchased from the earth and from among men.

I find in I Cor. 6:20 that "you are bought with a price" speaking of believers. I find in I Cor. 7:23, "you were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men." again, speaking of believers.

If you could help me, please tell me where you found the verse of scripture that says Jesus purchased all men with His blood?

peace to youraise:

 

What is "it" But "it" says? Are you talking about the Bible or something in the doctrinal statement of the regular baptist?