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Reasons WHY Obama Will Not Intervene in Ukraine
- Thread starter righteousdude2
- Start date
IMO, that about sums it up poncho. Obama's not even smart enough to get himself into this mess, this was brewing before he ever became a puppet.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Poncho, Poncho, Tell me true. Just what is a neocon, a just released convict or a just imprisoned felon!
We lost at two well-known places that I know of. Firstly, we failed to put missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic as scheduled. Secondly, the totalitarian Democrats claimed that the cold war was over and that any talk of a Russian threat was laughable and our military was downgraded.
As you know, Democrats like to start wars to detract from their failed domestic policies but with the weak military it seems unlikely that Obama/Kerry/Clinton/Biden can do anything.
As for energy, I suppose that it is too much to ask the Europeans to go to work and use modern technology to extract their own natural gas. We have a Europe dependent on American money and American military and World War II ended sixty years ago.
I am a bit surprised that none of the hawks have suggested a very obvious solution to the problem; one that would not cost nearly as much as a military venture nor cost the lives of soldiers or civilians.
Now all you folk, think about this and give me the obvious answer.
Now all you folk, think about this and give me the obvious answer.
poncho
Well-Known Member
Worse than that OR. A neocon is someone who's political roots can be traced back to Wilsonian progressivism, "making the world safe for democracy" and Leon Trotsky, "perpetual revolution".
They are also known to be in the pocket of the military industrial complex and put Israel's national interests before the interests of the people of the United States.
They are found in all the corporate sponsored think tanks that formulate what they call "foreign policy", which all boils down to meddling in other countries affairs politically, economically and/or militarily. They follow the teachings of Leo Strauss knowingly or in most cases as in the neocons around these parts unknowingly.
They are among Obama's chief advisers and critics they owned George W. Bush lock stock and barrel. They are the ones who's first choice is war, second choice sanctions together with covert destabilization using proxy forces (like the ones John McCain is so fond of having his picture taken with) with the hopes that they will lead to war and/or regime change down the road.
They have never seen a foreign intervention they didn't like, or a nation they wouldn't like to tear down and rebuild closer to their own hearts.
They often deploy thick smoke screens by using words like "democracy" and "self determination" in their appeals to fund and arm any rebel group good bad or ugly they feel might have a chance at destabilizing and/or over throwing any government whether duly elected or not that isn't on friendly terms with Wall Street and the multinational corporations that underwrite their lengthy and often dangerous, disastrous (both for Americans and those in other nations) political careers. They puff up their chests and raise their voices to lecture the rest of the world about the virtues of democracy and self determination while they work to undue any democratically elected government that doesn't sell their people out to the global banktsers and multinational corporations and any democratic institution that would actually let the people of the nations in their crosshairs have any sort of self determination without Washington and the "international communities" blessing will either be co opted, dismantled or pronounced "illegal".
Their hypocrisy knows no bounds or limits.
They have the blood of millions on their hands yet we see their faces all over the TV as they give themselves "peace medals" and other trappings of glory they have not earned and do not deserve. Every foreign intervention and war they have gotten us into thus far has been a complete and utter failure that has destroyed countless lives and driven us deeper into debt and inflamed hatred for the United States all over the world and multiplied the ranks of the terrorists who would do us harm many times over but that doesn't bother them or stop them they only want more. More meddling, more regime change, more war. They are the single biggest threat to our security as a nation and our freedoms as individuals.
They are not leaders, they are not heros they are criminals of the worst kind. The kind that have the majority of people fooled into thinking they are not criminals at all.
They need to be arrested tried for fraud against the United States, crimes against humanity and war crimes for the harm they have inflicted on other nations and sentenced according to the their multitude of crimes.
They are the people old time conservatives and those in the intelligence community used to call "the crazies" back before they seized power under the George W. Bush puppet regime and used the tragedy of 9/11 as a pretext to start an all out planetary war for "global hegemony" or what they lovingly termed the "New American Century".
Does that answer your question OR?
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Well thank you!
No that we've heard from the CTB and Poncho, I see little reason for this thread to continue!
Poncho, you get more scary each time you post! :smilewinkgrin:
No that we've heard from the CTB and Poncho, I see little reason for this thread to continue!
Poncho, you get more scary each time you post! :smilewinkgrin:
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
I am beginning to seriously believe he and another poster on here are communist sleeper agents.
It occurred to me this morning there is another huge potential problem of ships getting into or out of the Black Sea. Frankly, no one in the Navy would be stupid enough to try. Anyway, the second is that a bridge now spans the Bosporus. All Russia would have to do is drop that bridge and no one would get in or out. That would not be hard to do and would not risk any Russian aircraft or ships.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Perhaps you should research George Bush's reaction to the invasion of two Georgian provinces in 2007 before speculating wildly and incorrectly.
And what was the result? The two provinces are part of Russia.
Did you propose we go to war against Russia at that time?
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Avoiding the issue. Please return to my previous post and then discuss the results of your taking the recommended action, i.e., tell me what Bush did.
Putin has wanted "this mess" more than anyone. Remember, he is that one who said “First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” He is going about rectifying that collapse.
As far as Syria goes, there were plenty of loyal Dems pushing for a harder line in Syria
LINK - WASHINGTON — President Obama's vow to limit U.S. involvement in the Syrian civil war is being criticized from a usually sympathetic quarter: the Democratic foreign policy establishment.
Senior Democratic foreign policy figures, along with diplomats who have worked for Democratic administrations, are saying the administration needs to do more to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe and preserve U.S. influence in a key Mideast state.
poncho
Well-Known Member
There is no democratic foreign policy establishment. There's only the corporate sponsored foreign policy establishment.
Do you really believe all the multinational corporations that put out piles of money to keep all the "foreign policy" think tanks operating do it because they care about party politics or good will towards their fellow man?
C'mon they only care about their bottom line. They're all about expanding their markets, controlling resources and reducing labor costs.
Think about it.
If a corporation were truly a person that person would be a psychopath. See this . . . http://www.forbes.com/sites/victorlipman/2013/04/25/the-disturbing-link-between-psychopathy-and-leadership/
And this . . . http://siivola.org/monte/papers_grouped/uncopyrighted/Misc/corporate_psychopathy.htm
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Putin's Russia is an oligarchy, and Vladimir has always been corrupt according to German, US, and even Russian authorities - LINK-. And yet some people defend his every move. It makes one wonder why.
poncho
Well-Known Member
Again with the same old talking point? Don't you know another?
Did it ever occur to you that the USA is run by an oligarchy? Evidently you know what an oligarchy looks like so I'm wondering if you just missed this little factoid by accident or intent.
I'm still wondering why you decided to stand with neo nazis.
Personally I'm four square against nazism doesn't mean I'm siding with Putin like O'Rielly and Hannity are telling you though.
It just means I don't think it's wise to jump in bed with a complete stranger. Yet some people here have done exactly that. Makes one wonder.
Across the Western media, there have even been admissions that the “uprising” in Kiev was led by outright Nazis. The BBC’s short video report, “Neo-Nazi threat in new Ukraine,” exposes this otherwise intentionally ignored aspect of “Euromaidan.” Attempts to cover up the fascist nature of the regime in Kiev by the West is intentional – and to further mislead the public, they have begun fabricating narratives portraying Russia as the “Hitler-style” aggressor.
In Crimea in particular, the West has attempted to portray the ethnic minority Tartars as facing impending doom as a result of closer ties with Russia. In the New York Times article, “Mindful of Past, Many Tatars Fear a Russian Future,” it claims:
As Crimea prepares to vote on Sunday on whether to secede from Ukraine and join Russia, the prospect of a renewed Russian presence in Crimea evokes for Tatars raw memories of Communist-era depredations.
A Turkic Muslim minority with deep roots on the Black Sea peninsula, the Crimean Tatars see themselves as a native population, though they have had to struggle to maintain their place in their homeland. Under the Soviets, the Tatars lived through collectivization, Stalin’s purges, World War II and, in 1944, a brutal ethnic cleansing that sent nearly 200,000 into exile in the Gulag and Central Asia, unfairly accused of collaboration with the Nazis. Nearly half are believed to have died.
The West is attempting to manufacture an impending crisis by citing baseless anecdotes and deportations that occurred decades ago under Joseph Stalin and his political system that has long since ended. Buried deep within the New York Times piece is an admission that:
The Kremlin and the new Crimean government led by Sergei Aksyonov have expressed strong sympathy for the Tatars’ concerns. Russian leaders invited a former Soviet dissident and current member of the Ukrainian Parliament, Mustafa Dzhemilev, to Moscow, where he met with representatives of Russian Tatarstan and spoke for 30 minutes on Wednesday by phone with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.
Earlier on Tuesday, the Crimean Parliament passed a resolution providing for protections of Tatar rights, including proportional representation in the new government and official status for the Crimean Tatar language.
So unlike the Western-backed regime in Kiev that has moved to oppress ethnic minorities across Ukraine, the Russian and Crimean leadership have taken steps to protect ethnic minorities in regions set to peel away from Kiev. And while the West attempts to spin, defend, or simply ignore the bigotry and oppression of their new regime in Kiev, they attempt to sow doubt and fear across the public in regards to Crimea’s closer ties with Russia.
http://journal-neo.org/2014/03/17/media-war-the-battle-for-crimea/
Evidently like so many others here you react to the "news" and don't worry so much about whether any of it is true or if there is anything important missing from it.
I believe you'll fit right in around here just fine. :smilewinkgrin:
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The same reason they have always defended Russia and/or the Soviet Union: Marxism! It began at least as far back as the Roosevelts{ FDR and Eleanor} and has continued in the leftist wing, actually it is no longer a wing, but the entire political leadership of the democrat party and a substantial number of wannabe serfs!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You are delusional if you think that the political system of Stalin has ended. It is alive and well in Russia and still has the support of the leftist democrats in this country. Has it ever occurred to you that when Obama told Putin he could be more flexible after the election he meant it!
poncho
Well-Known Member
Yes it has OR but at the same time it has also occurred to me that letting the fear of communism drive me to be allied with neo nazis would be about the same as slapping every serviceman's face who fought to destroy the Third Reich in WWII.
I'm not ready to let fear drive me that far yet.
I've also considered that well known documented fact that Obama isn't above lying to anyone about anything. The man displays all the characteristics of a high functioning psychopath.
To claim he lies about everything but this would be akin to self delusion imho.
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This is something Putin has been working on for a long time and looking for his opportunity to move. Here is a quote from Condoleezza Rice on Putin talking to her.