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Reasons WHY Obama Will Not Intervene in Ukraine

poncho

Well-Known Member
This is something Putin has been working on for a long time and looking for his opportunity to move. Here is a quote from Condoleezza Rice on Putin talking to her.


Wow this is getting really spooky now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

It's weird enough that the "pro freedom and democracy" folks are siding with neo nazis then along comes Crabby quoting a neocon that lied us into a war with Iraq!

I guess 50 or 60 years of fear and paranoia will create some strange bed fellows. :tonofbricks:
 
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poncho

Well-Known Member
Perhaps you should research George Bush's reaction to the invasion of two Georgian provinces in 2007 before speculating wildly and incorrectly.

I researched this as it was happening. Turns out NATO, USAID and NED with the usual assortment of corporate funded NGOs were involved in instigating that dust up to.
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
This is something Putin has been working on for a long time and looking for his opportunity to move. Here is a quote from Condoleezza Rice on Putin talking to her.

“Meet Viktor Yanukovych, who is running for the presidency of Ukraine.” Vladimir Putin and I were standing in his office at the presidential dacha in late 2004 when Yanukovych suddenly appeared from a back room. Putin wanted me to get the point. "He’s my man, Ukraine is ours — and don’t forget it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...22c_story.html


The Soviet Union that Reagan brought down is on its way back, and Obama and the left in this country are happy now!
 
And what was the result? The two provinces are part of Russia.
Avoiding the issue. Please return to my previous post and then discuss the results of your taking the recommended action, i.e., tell me what Bush did.
crickets.gif
 

Doubting Thomas

Active Member
Worse than that OR. A neocon is someone who's political roots can be traced back to Wilsonian progressivism, "making the world safe for democracy" and Leon Trotsky, "perpetual revolution".

They are also known to be in the pocket of the military industrial complex and put Israel's national interests before the interests of the people of the United States.

They are found in all the corporate sponsored think tanks that formulate what they call "foreign policy", which all boils down to meddling in other countries affairs politically, economically and/or militarily. They follow the teachings of Leo Strauss knowingly or in most cases as in the neocons around these parts unknowingly.

They are among Obama's chief advisers and critics they owned George W. Bush lock stock and barrel. They are the ones who's first choice is war, second choice sanctions together with covert destabilization using proxy forces (like the ones John McCain is so fond of having his picture taken with) with the hopes that they will lead to war and/or regime change down the road.

They have never seen a foreign intervention they didn't like, or a nation they wouldn't like to tear down and rebuild closer to their own hearts.

They often deploy thick smoke screens by using words like "democracy" and "self determination" in their appeals to fund and arm any rebel group good bad or ugly they feel might have a chance at destabilizing and/or over throwing any government whether duly elected or not that isn't on friendly terms with Wall Street and the multinational corporations that underwrite their lengthy and often dangerous, disastrous (both for Americans and those in other nations) political careers. They puff up their chests and raise their voices to lecture the rest of the world about the virtues of democracy and self determination while they work to undue any democratically elected government that doesn't sell their people out to the global banktsers and multinational corporations and any democratic institution that would actually let the people of the nations in their crosshairs have any sort of self determination without Washington and the "international communities" blessing will either be co opted, dismantled or pronounced "illegal".

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds or limits.

They have the blood of millions on their hands yet we see their faces all over the TV as they give themselves "peace medals" and other trappings of glory they have not earned and do not deserve. Every foreign intervention and war they have gotten us into thus far has been a complete and utter failure that has destroyed countless lives and driven us deeper into debt and inflamed hatred for the United States all over the world and multiplied the ranks of the terrorists who would do us harm many times over but that doesn't bother them or stop them they only want more. More meddling, more regime change, more war. They are the single biggest threat to our security as a nation and our freedoms as individuals.

They are not leaders, they are not heros they are criminals of the worst kind. The kind that have the majority of people fooled into thinking they are not criminals at all.

They need to be arrested tried for fraud against the United States, crimes against humanity and war crimes for the harm they have inflicted on other nations and sentenced according to the their multitude of crimes.

They are the people old time conservatives and those in the intelligence community used to call "the crazies" back before they seized power under the George W. Bush puppet regime and used the tragedy of 9/11 as a pretext to start an all out planetary war for "global hegemony" or what they lovingly termed the "New American Century".

Does that answer your question OR?

Excellent post, my friend :applause:
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Worse than that OR. A neocon is someone who's political roots can be traced back to Wilsonian progressivism, "making the world safe for democracy" and Leon Trotsky, "perpetual revolution".

They are also known to be in the pocket of the military industrial complex and put Israel's national interests before the interests of the people of the United States.

They are found in all the corporate sponsored think tanks that formulate what they call "foreign policy", which all boils down to meddling in other countries affairs politically, economically and/or militarily. They follow the teachings of Leo Strauss knowingly or in most cases as in the neocons around these parts unknowingly.

They are among Obama's chief advisers and critics they owned George W. Bush lock stock and barrel. They are the ones who's first choice is war, second choice sanctions together with covert destabilization using proxy forces (like the ones John McCain is so fond of having his picture taken with) with the hopes that they will lead to war and/or regime change down the road.

They have never seen a foreign intervention they didn't like, or a nation they wouldn't like to tear down and rebuild closer to their own hearts.

They often deploy thick smoke screens by using words like "democracy" and "self determination" in their appeals to fund and arm any rebel group good bad or ugly they feel might have a chance at destabilizing and/or over throwing any government whether duly elected or not that isn't on friendly terms with Wall Street and the multinational corporations that underwrite their lengthy and often dangerous, disastrous (both for Americans and those in other nations) political careers. They puff up their chests and raise their voices to lecture the rest of the world about the virtues of democracy and self determination while they work to undue any democratically elected government that doesn't sell their people out to the global banktsers and multinational corporations and any democratic institution that would actually let the people of the nations in their crosshairs have any sort of self determination without Washington and the "international communities" blessing will either be co opted, dismantled or pronounced "illegal".

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds or limits.

They have the blood of millions on their hands yet we see their faces all over the TV as they give themselves "peace medals" and other trappings of glory they have not earned and do not deserve. Every foreign intervention and war they have gotten us into thus far has been a complete and utter failure that has destroyed countless lives and driven us deeper into debt and inflamed hatred for the United States all over the world and multiplied the ranks of the terrorists who would do us harm many times over but that doesn't bother them or stop them they only want more. More meddling, more regime change, more war. They are the single biggest threat to our security as a nation and our freedoms as individuals.

They are not leaders, they are not heros they are criminals of the worst kind. The kind that have the majority of people fooled into thinking they are not criminals at all.

They need to be arrested tried for fraud against the United States, crimes against humanity and war crimes for the harm they have inflicted on other nations and sentenced according to the their multitude of crimes.

They are the people old time conservatives and those in the intelligence community used to call "the crazies" back before they seized power under the George W. Bush puppet regime and used the tragedy of 9/11 as a pretext to start an all out planetary war for "global hegemony" or what they lovingly termed the "New American Century".

Does that answer your question OR?

So poncho, tell me, are there any true patriots left in the country. I don't believe the radical leftists are, you don't believe the "neocons" or new conservatives are. Who does that leave?
 

Lewis

Active Member
Site Supporter
The same reason they have always defended Russia and/or the Soviet Union: Marxism! It began at least as far back as the Roosevelts{ FDR and Eleanor} and has continued in the leftist wing, actually it is no longer a wing, but the entire political leadership of the democrat party and a substantial number of wannabe serfs!

Marxism is one possibility. Another is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" proverb. They seem to detest the US so much that they will applaud anyone who opposes the US and the West in general. Even a thug such as Putin.
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
So poncho, tell me, are there any true patriots left in the country. I don't believe the radical leftists are, you don't believe the "neocons" or new conservatives are. Who does that leave?

I'd guess about three to five percent of the total population OR. But that's okay because that's the same percentage of patriots there were at the beginning of the first American revolution.

Have you read Mark Twain?

“In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.”

That fact is that both major parties have sold us out to the global banks and multinational corporations for whom they toil endlessly.

I know it's an old song of mine OR but that doesn't make it any less true.

Those who argue that one party or another would better serve the people have (no offense meant) rocks in their heads. Neither party serves the people anymore they serve the global elite who have no loyalty or empathy towards any nation on earth.

To believe otherwise is to ignore the mass of evidence that proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt to the detriment of one's own country and people.
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
We'ii increase your taxes to do that. Let our European allies shoulder the load for a change. We're busted.

No not so's you'd notice really. Not right at first anyway. What would happen is the government would go to the private international bankers at the Federal Reserve and say we need x amount of fiat currency you all create from nothing to loan to us at interest so we can send the Marines off on another nation building experiment in Ukraine.

And the private bankers will say okay fine sign here and initial there. They won't let on that we'll have to pay back the principle that was created from nothing plus interest in real wealth. The government will know of course but so far for a hundred years they've been able to keep the people in the dark about this.

That way it'll just water down the value of our money through inflation instead of the government having to actually come out and raise taxes to pay for another nation building experiment. Same effect as taxation in the long run but more secretive and subtle.

That's how we got into all this "war" debt in the first place. If the government had to raise taxes every time it wanted to go to war or start another nation building experiment in some far off land the people would say whoa buddy not so fast we aint' got that kind of money to spare.

It would definitely limit the amount of wars and interventions the people would be willing to let Washington get us into.

Thank goodness the private international bankers on Jekyll Island in 1913 foresaw the need for governments to hide taxation from the people they were supposedly serving in the form of currency devaluation before hand or we might have never gone to war when we weren't being directly threatened or started a nation building experiment.

Even the "chairman of the board" at the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan called this an "insidious" form of taxation. Who would know better than he right?
 
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poncho

Well-Known Member
Marxism is one possibility. Another is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" proverb. They seem to detest the US so much that they will applaud anyone who opposes the US and the West in general. Even a thug such as Putin.

That's where you make your biggest mistake. The people who really run this country and formulate it's policies don't give one whit or iota about this country and it's people.

They care about what they can grab for themselves by hook, crook or by the gun.

The people you're letting lead you around by the nose aren't true blue Americans at all. They're "internationalists" working to build a system of global governance of by and for the corporations. One has to look no further than their open and shameless hypocrisy when dealing with other nations.

They talk about the virtues of democracy and self determination but they never allow the people who fall under their umbrella to enjoy any of it.

It's always do as we say or else, sanctions, regime change, civil war and occupation.

And that my new found friend is not what America was ever supposed to be about.

Maybe that's why those posing as the United States government just got voted the #1 threat to world peace followed up at a distant second by Pakistan.

http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about_the_end_of_year_survey/global_results/7/33/

I would think for a guy who seems to pride himself on loving his country you'd actually start defending your country instead of the crooked internationalists using it for their own ill gotten gain.

Ever hear of Major General Smedley D. Butler?

This speech by two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient exposes war profits that benefit few at the expense of many. Throughout his distinguished career in the Marines, Smedley Darlington Butler demonstrated that true patriotism does not mean blind allegiance to government policies with which one does not agree. To Hell with war.

Listen to this patriot's speech then call him a marxist he was saying the same thing in 1935 that I am today. Has anything changed since then? Well, yeah the war profits got much bigger and the people got a lot dumber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3_EXqJ8f-0

Or if you rather you can read it here . . . http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
We'ii increase your taxes to do that. Let our European allies shoulder the load for a change. We're busted.
Yeah! And Obama is the biggest buster of all, increasing the national debt by about 70%, increasing the number on food stamps by 20+ million, increasing the poverty rate substantially and making America look like a "wuss" among the nation of the world! A real winner that guy! But he can shoot hoops and shoot off his mouth!
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
He's doing a great job OR, America can't be merged into the global government structure completely until we're broke and hungry enough to allow the IMF to come over and be our savior.

Look what it took for France, Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Latvia so on and so forth.

What we saw there has to happen here or it's never going to work.
 

Doubting Thomas

Active Member
No accounting for taste among Marxists, I guess. :tonofbricks:

I am the furthest thing from a Marxist, but I guess to you anyone is a Marxist who dares critique the foreign policy decisions of the US Gov't.

BTW--one can still love his country without leaving his head in the sand and ignoring the realities of immoral interventions overseas and the erosions of our liberties here at home.

Totalitarianism comes in more than one flavor--fascism and communism are BOTH evil.
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
He's doing a great job OR, America can't be merged into the global government structure completely until we're broke and hungry enough to allow the IMF to come over and be our savior.

Look what it took for France, Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Latvia so on and so forth.

What we saw there has to happen here or it's never going to work.

I think everything is going just as Obama and Soros wanted. So considering that his presidency has been a success!
 
He's doing a great job OR, America can't be merged into the global government structure completely until we're broke and hungry enough to allow the IMF to come over and be our savior.
Oh, for the lovah ... what an ignorant statement!

The United States contributes nearly 18% of the IMF's yearly grant budget, nearly three times what any other nation contributes. With the United States "broke and hungry" the IMF ceases to exist.

If you're going to espouse ignorant conspiracy theories, at least try to make the plausible.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oh, for the lovah ... what an ignorant statement!

The United States contributes nearly 18% of the IMF's yearly grant budget, nearly three times what any other nation contributes. With the United States "broke and hungry" the IMF ceases to exist.

If you're going to espouse ignorant conspiracy theories, at least try to make the plausible.

Now, now TND, facts have no place in conspiracy theories.
 
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