RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD.

[3rdAngel]

From alternate translations

Philemon 1:14 (ESV) 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord.

Philemon 1:14 (KJV) 14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

Philemon 1:14 (NET1) 14 However,[33] without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your good deed would not be out of compulsion, but from your own willingness.

Philemon 1:14 (NIV2011) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary.

Philemon 1:14 (NJB) 14 However, I did not want to do anything without your consent; it would have been forcing your act of kindness, which should be spontaneous.

Philemon 1:14 (NRSV) 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good deed might be voluntary and not something forced.

Philemon 1:14 (BBE) 14 But without your approval I would do nothing; so that your good works might not be forced, but done freely from your heart.

Philemon 1:14 (MontgomeryNT) 14 But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.

Philemon 1:14 (CEB) 14 However, I didn't want to do anything without your consent so that your act of kindness would occur willingly and not under pressure.

Philemon 1:14 (CEV) 14 But I won't do anything unless you agree to it first. I want your act of kindness to come from your heart, and not be something you feel forced to do.

............

ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

Free will is without necessity
Free will is without compulsion
Free will is without force
Free will is a will not pressured
Free will is from one own heart
Free will is a voluntary
Free will is of your own accord
Free will is without constraint

And one last verse not Phm 1:14

1 Corinthians 7:37 (KJV) 37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

Free will has no necessity and is under ones own power

Some other scriptures...

Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

JOSHUA 24:14-15 [14], Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve you the LORD. [15], And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you. I hope you can receive this correction in the Spirit is has been provided (love) and it may be a blessing to you so you may have a closer walk with JESUS.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel wrote: IS RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD?

Your response...

Now for the answer to the question posed here:

No.

Belief is a gift ( Philippians 1:29 ).
People believe because they are of Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 ).
People believe because they are ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).
Belief is a work of God ( John 6:29 ), not a work of men.
Belief of the truth is something that God chooses a person to salvation through ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), not because of.
A person has to have both the Father and Son revealed to them ( Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22 ), and have their understanding opened ( Luke 24:45 ) before they can come to God.

Those that come to Christ can never be lost, because Christ will lose none of the ones the Father has given to Him ( John 6:39 ).
They shall not come into condemnation, because they are passed from death unto life ( John 5:24 ).

Spiritual death for the true child of God is a fallacy not present in Scripture, the same as gaining spiritual life by the will and efforts of men is a fallacy.
God decides who to save, and God decides who to damn... not the ones who are worthy of nothing but death.

God does not present men with a choice that has already been made in both our hearts and minds....
To hate God and love sin.

Unlike Israel under the Law of Moses, He does not present mankind with a choice to choose life or to choose death ( which was physical life and physical death by the keeping of the Law...not eternal life and death ).
Romans 1:18-32 tells us that the choice has already been made.

Those that are in a constant state of rebellion are not consulted as to their choices, since we are not our own Judge and Jury.
Prison awaits all whom God does not decide to pardon.

WRONG!

Let's get this straight. You have not provided a single scripture here that says that we receive God's Spirit by not believing and following God's Word. Let's examine what you are saying here and let's play this one out a little longer by asking a few questions. The question was asked in this OP...

IS RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD?

In your response, you are actually saying that...

1. We do not have to believe and follow God's Word and we can receive God's Spirit.
2. We can continue in sin and receive God's Spirit.

Do you really believe the above?

If you do not believe God's Word how can you have God's Spirit when it is only by faith in God's Word that God gives us His Spirit?

How can we be born again to walk in God's Spirit if we do not believe God's Word?

If we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH how can we be saved if we do not believe God's Word when faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?

Why are we warned in the scriptures not to GRIEVE or put out the Holy Spirit from our lives?

How can we (according to the scriptures) do we GRIEVE or put out God's Spirit?

Can you see the errors in your reasoning here brother? I pray that you may receive this post in the Spirit it was given (love) and it may be a help for you to have a closer walk with JESUS.

God bless

 

[Dave G]

Thankyou, I read them carefully the first time

With respect, I don't think it helped much.

No one said man is born again by their own free will.

You just did.

Being born again is the wordk of God in those who by their free will choose to believe God's Word *JOHN 3:15-21.

By stating that being born again is a work of God, and then making it a condition that a person, by their free will chooses to believe God's word, that constitutes being born again by their free will.

The difference is, you're stating it in a round-about way....with being born again still dependent upon man's will, not God's will alone.

While it is true it is the work of God's Spirit that changes the heart to the new covenant promise of love *HEBREWS 8:10-12 if you do not believe God's Word than there is no promise for you and you cannot be born again.

I agree.
One cannot be born again and not believe God's word.

No one said that anyone can receive anything if it is not given him from Heaven. If no one has said such things why are you pretending that they have? What is it that is given us from Heaven do you know?

More than just His Son.
Everything that pertains to life and godliness ( 2 Peter 1:3 ).

We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH in God's Word *EPHESIANS 2:8-9 and FAITH comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. If there is no Word there can be no faith.

I agree.

If we choose to believe God's Word then there is faith. If you do not believe God's Word there is no faith and you cannot be saved.

Faith comes by "hearing" the word of God (Romans 10:17 ).
Salvation comes before belief, and belief comes before faith.
Faith is a fruit of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ), and cannot precede the Spirit's indwelling.

We choose to believe or not believe.

People believe because they are Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 )...not to gain salvation, which they are already in possession of.

Only those who believe Gods Word are born again.

Precisely.

Now let's get something chear. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9.

I understand it quite clearly.
Step back, look at it all objectively, and tell me that what you're teaching is not works.

I say that it is, because you seem to think that a person has to first believe, in order to get the rest.
Therefore, the gift of God is not a gift, but is now a reward for the correct action.

WRONG!

I'm wrong?
Based on what authority?
Yours?

I don't recall God ever making you my teacher...I have one, and it's His Spirit ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).

I'll stick to God's word, and I'll respectfully have to disagree with you and what you are presenting.
You may do the same, sir.

 

[Dave G]

In your response, you are actually saying that...

1. We do not have to believe and follow God's Word and we can receive God's Spirit.
2. We can continue in sin and receive God's Spirit.

No I did not.

If you do not believe God's Word how can you have God's Spirit when it is only by faith in God's Word that God gives us His Spirit?

Because it is not by faith that He gives us His Spirit.
It is by the "hearing" of faith that He does ( Galatians 3:21 ).

He that has ears to hear, let him hear ( Matthew 11:15 ).

 

[Dave G]

How can we be born again to walk in God's Spirit if we do not believe God's Word?

I did not say a person that is born again does not believe God's word.
I said that to me, you have it backwards.

You seem to believe that a person has to do something to "trigger" God's work...as if their salvation depends upon their own efforts and not God's alone.

That is not grace ( God's efforts to bestow His favor upon those He has chosen to ), that is works ( man's efforts to gain favor with God by our own choice ).

That is exactly what Roman Catholic "Molinism" teaches, as well as "Wesleyan Arminianism"....that salvation is ultimately dependent upon something that a man does, instead of it being dependent upon what God does, and the person then reacting to what He has done.

From my perspective, you're teaching what some call, "Synergism"....that sinful men can cooperate with God in achieving what they want...escape from Hell.

That is not what the Bible teaches.
Again, salvation is a gift.

What you're describing turns it into a reward.

 

[Dave G]

Free will has no necessity and is under ones own power

Even though God's word describes men as already against Him, in their will and heart?

Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20.

I'd say that that puts man's will decidedly under our own power...the power of a heart and mind that is at enmity with God.
Choice made, God loses...unless He grants us repentance.

 

[37818]

Q1, Can we receive God's Spirit by believing and following God's Word then lose it?

JOHN 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

 

[3rdAngel]

With respect, I don't think it helped much.

You can choose to believe and follow God's Word or not believe and follow God's Word. You are free to do as you wish. We all answer only to God come judgment day.

3rdAngel said: ↑ No one said man is born again by their own free will.

Your response..

You just did.

Now brother, brearing false witness about something a brother has never said or believes does not support your position. I can understand why you wish to only part quote me and leave out the scripture response for the rest of this section of what is posted which shows your in error by showing that being born again is the word of God in those who by their free will choose to believe God's Word *JOHN 3:15-21. It is the Spirit the quickeneth the flesh profit nothing the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life *JOHN 6:63. It is our faith in God's Word that gives us the victory to over come the world and be born of God *1 JOHN 5:4. Our free will is in believing God's Word or not believing God's Word *JOHN 3:15-21. Do you not believe God's Word? If you do why are you pretending I am saying something that I am not?

By stating that being born again is a work of God, and then making it a condition that a person, by their free will chooses to believe God's word, that constitutes being born again by their free will. The difference is, you're stating it in a round-about way....with being born again still dependent upon man's will, not God's will alone.

WRONG!

As stated earlier in the the scriptures already provided that you conveniently left out. Being Born of God is not our work is it God's work in all those who believe his Word. We are saved be grace, THROUGH FAITH. You are trying to teach that we are saved by having no faith which is not biblical. We do not save ourselves. God saves us as we believe His Word. "As many as received (believe) him gave he them power to become the sons of God even to them that believed on His name which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God *JOHN 1:12-13. You are trying to teach that we are born of God without receiving and believing God's Word which is not biblical. Our free will does not make is born again, this is God's work in all those who believe His Word *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; PHILIPPIANS 4:13.

I agree. One cannot be born again and not believe God's word.

You can choose to believe or not believe God's Word. This is where we have free will. This free will does not save us. God saves us if we believe his Word. It is believing his Word that god gives us His power to follow him because we hear His Word. God's Word is the power of God in creation *GENESIS 1 to all those who believe *JOHN 1:1-14; JOHN 3:15-21. Only those who choose to receive God's Word are born again to follow him.

More than just His Son. Everything that pertains to life and godliness ( 2 Peter 1:3 ).

It is not more than just His Son. It is ONLY in the Son of God. JESUS is the Word of God *JOHN 1:1-13. In him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells *COLOSSIANS 2:9; MATTHEW 4:4

Faith comes by "hearing" the word of God (Romans 10:17 ). Salvation comes before belief, and belief comes before faith. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ), and cannot precede the Spirit's indwelling.

WRONG! Here is why... How can salvation come before the Word of God when faith comes by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17 and we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH *EPHESIANS 2:8-9?

People believe because they are Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 )...not to gain salvation, which they are already in possession of..

WRONG! Here is why... How can you be God's Sheep without believing God's Word? You cannot. The scriptures say

JOHN 10:1-4 [1], Truly, truly, I say to you, He that enters not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. [2], But he that enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. [3], To him the porter opens; and THE SHEEP (believers) HEAR HIS VOICE (the Word of God): and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. [4], And when he puts forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: for THEY HEAR HIS VOICE (the Word).

JOHN 10:26-28 [26], But you believe not (unbelievers), because you are not of my sheep (believers), as I said to you. [27], My sheep (believers) hear my voice (the Word of God), and I know them, and THEY FOLLOW ME: [28], And I give to them (believers) eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Those who are God's Sheep are God's Sheep because they HEAR HIS VOICE (the WORD) and FOLLOW HIM (the Word). You are confused here brother. You cannot be saved without faith and faith comes by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. You are trying to teach we are saved and God's Sheep before believing and following God's Word. This is not biblical. Can you see your error here?

3rdAngel wrote: Now let's get something chear. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. God's GRACE is given to mankind for OBEDIENCE to the faith *ROMANS 1:5. OBEDIENCE to God's Word is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

Your response...

I understand it quite clearly. Step back, look at it all objectively, and tell me that what you're teaching is not works. I say that it is, because you seem to think that a person has to first believe, in order to get the rest. Therefore, the gift of God is not a gift, but is now a reward for the correct action.

Your post makes no sense. It seems you have either not read or not understood the scriptures that are being shared with you. Can you please show me how does what you are stating in this section of your post match what you are quoting from? If you do not believe God's Word you have no faith and it is only by faith that God saves us *EPHESIANS 2:8-9; 1 JOHN 5:4; JOHN 1:1-14; JOHN 3:3-8; JOHN 3:15-21; JOHN 10:1-4; JOHN 10:26-27.

I'm wrong? Based on what authority? Yours?

No, I have no authority. You are wrong based on God's authority which is the Word of God. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear it only makes us unbelievers. If I have only shared Gods' Word with you then why do you not believe it?

I don't recall God ever making you my teacher...I have one, and it's His Spirit ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).

If God were your teacher you would believe Gods' Word but you do not believe God's Word that is shared with you here.

I'll stick to God's word, and I'll respectfully have to disagree with you and what you are presenting. You may do the same, sir.

If you were sticking to God's Word you would believe God's Word shared with you but it seems you do not. We can agree to disagree as we all answer only to God come judgment day. At this time however it will be too late for many that did not want to hear God's Word and did not know the day of their visitation. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.

God bless.

 

[3rdAngel]

No I did not.

Arr but you did. You did not address this post at all or the questions asked of you. So we will leave it here as I see your not interested in discussing this. If you were you would have attepted to answer the questions asked of you that show that were indeed stating by what you were posting that...

1. We do not have to believe and follow God's Word and we can receive God's Spirit.
2. We can continue in sin and receive God's Spirit.

Happy to discuss this further with you if you want to answer the questions asked of you that show this is what you are teaching.

Because it is not by faith that He gives us His Spirit. It is by the "hearing" of faith that He does ( Galatians 3:21 ). He that has ears to hear, let him hear ( Matthew 11:15 ).

There is no hearing of the Word and no faith without the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. If there is no Word what is it that you expect to hear and how can you have faith which comes by the Word of God? You cannot.

Can you see your error here?

 

[3rdAngel]

I did not say a person that is born again does not believe God's word. I said that to me, you have it backwards.

No! You tried to claim that I was posting something that I was not saying by claiming that I said free will makes a person born again to which I responded I said no such thing then went on to explain that our only free will is in choosing to BELIEVE Gods WORD and it is in BELIEVING God's WORD that God works in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; PHILIPPIANS 4:13; JOHN 1:1-14; JOHN 3:3-8; JOHN 3:15-21.

You seem to believe that a person has to do something to "trigger" God's work...as if their salvation depends upon their own efforts and not God's alone. That is not grace ( God's efforts to bestow His favor upon those He has chosen to ), that is works ( man's efforts to gain favor with God by our own choice ).That is exactly what Roman Catholic "Molinism" teaches, as well as "Wesleyan Arminianism"....that salvation is ultimately dependent upon something that a man does, instead of it being dependent upon what God does, and the person then reacting to what He has done. From my perspective, you're teaching what some call, "Synergism"....that sinful men can cooperate with God in achieving what they want...escape from Hell. That is not what the Bible teaches. Again, salvation is a gift. What you're describing turns it into a reward.

No! God's Word says that we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH (believing God's Word) and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's Word is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Your promoting the false gospel of "Once Saved Always Saved" This is not biblical and has it's origin from the father of lies first told to Eve in the garden of Eden in GENESIS 3:1-5 stating that you can break God's commandments and not surely die. All who follow this course will be disappointed when JESUS returns *MATTHEW 7:22-23.

Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

Even though God's word describes men as already against Him, in their will and heart?

Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20.

I'd say that that puts man's will decidedly under our own power...the power of a heart and mind that is at enmity with God.
Choice made, God loses...unless He grants us repentance.

Friend there is no repentance if you do not believe Gods' Word *ROMANS 10:17; JOHN 1:1-14; JOHN 3:3-8; JOHN 3:15-21.

 

[3rdAngel]

Friend there is no repentance if you do not believe Gods' Word *ROMANS 10:17; JOHN 1:1-14; JOHN 3:15-

JOHN 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Indeed, a conditional promise to all those who believe (present tense believing) and follow God's Word. It is not a promise to someone who does not believe or believed God's Word yesterday but does not believe and follow God's Word today. Unbelievers do not have Gods' Spirit.

 

[Dave G]

Friend there is no repentance if you do not believe Gods' Word *ROMANS 10:17; JOHN 1:1-14; JOHN 3:3-8; JOHN 3:15-21.

Repentance to the acknowledging of the truth must be granted by God:

" in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 and [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." ( 2 Timothy 2:25 ).

Believe the words for the words' sake, sir.

 

[Dave G]

No! You tried to claim that I was posting something that I was not saying by claiming that I said free will makes a person born again to which I responded I said no such thing then went on to explain that our only free will is in choosing to BELIEVE Gods WORD and it is in BELIEVING God's WORD that God works in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; PHILIPPIANS 4:13; JOHN 1:1-14; JOHN 3:3-8; JOHN 3:15-21.

You're making the new birth conditional on choosing to believe God's words.

As I see it, that "hamstrings" God, and makes Him rely on a person's belief, in order to save them from His wrath.
What do you call that?

 

[3rdAngel]

Repentance to the acknowledging of the truth must be granted by God:

" in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 and [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." ( 2 Timothy 2:25 ).

Believe the words for the words' sake, sir.

You are not hearing God's Word because you do not believe it. Your post here does not respond to what you are quoting from. How can you have repentance if you do not believe God's Word? Friend there is no repentance if you do not believe Gods' Word *ROMANS 10:17; JOHN 1:1-14; JOHN 3:3-8; JOHN 3:15-21.

 

[Dave G]

You did not address this post at all or the questions asked of you

I don't have to...the burden of proof is on you as the presenter.

There is no hearing of the Word and no faith without the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. If there is no Word what is it that you expect to hear and how can you have faith which comes by the Word of God? You cannot.

I agree that without the word of God, there can be no hearing of faith.

 

[Dave G]

You are not hearing God's Word because you do not believe it.

Sure I do.
Do you believe this?

" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 )

Do you believe what it says?

How about this?

" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 ).

 

[3rdAngel]

You're making the new birth conditional on choosing to believe God's words.

As I see it, that "hamstrings" God, and makes Him rely on a person's belief, in order to save them from His wrath.
What do you call that?

It is God's Word not mine that says if you do not believe God's Word you cannot be born again. If you do not believe God's Word there is no new birth because it is only those who receive him (the Word of God) that he gives power to become the sons of God which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God *JOHN 1:1-14

 

[3rdAngel]

I don't have to...the burden of proof is on you as the presenter.
I agree that without the word of God, there can be no hearing of faith.

WRONG! It was your claims outside of the OP that were being addressed by the questions being asked of you not the OP.

 

[Dave G]

It is God's Word not mine that says if you do not believe God's Word you cannot be born again.

I am born again, and I do believe God's word.
Do you?

If you do not believe God's Word there is no new birth because it is only those who receive him (the Word of God) that he gives power to become the sons of God which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God *JOHN 1:1-14

Exactly.
Those that received Him, He gave the power to become the sons of God.
How does one receive Christ?