Recommendation for this mission Board?

[Salty]

Came across this mission board on the net

This mission board has a Director, Assist Dir, and a secretary.
There are two missionary couples on the field.

Should they merge with another mission board?
Are they really using resources wisely?

Open for discussion.

Missionaries - Church Planters To America

 

[Marooncat79]

I do a ton of evangelism and have planted churches while working full time

not sure about their situation

 

[1689Dave]

The last Church we worked to establish ran on a shoestring. Basically, a couple of ministers, one highly acclaimed in Reformed circles, drove from Chicago and shared teaching. A couple hosted their weekly bible studies in their home. I think the OP describes an unnecessary component to getting the job done.

 

[John of Japan]

Came across this mission board on the net

This mission board has a Director, Assist Dir, and a secretary.
There are two missionary couples on the field.

Should they merge with another mission board?
Are they really using resources wisely?

Open for discussion.

Missionaries - Church Planters To America

This is part of a trend nowadays of small, local church oriented mission boards with just a few missionaries. In general, I don't think it's a bad idea.

As to whether they are using resources wisely, to me that depends on how old they are. If they've been around for a few decades and haven't grown, maybe they should merge with someone. If they are a brand new board, maybe they'll grow.

 

[1689Dave]

Small churches might consider the "Coffee House" approach. It's a great way to reach teens and 20s. Also, it gives an outlet for many with music or lyrical talents. Not much use for a "mission board" and red tape in these little storefront churches. We've seen some success in this area.

 

[Salty]

This is part of a trend nowadays of small, local church oriented mission boards with just a few missionaries. In general, I don't think it's a bad idea.

As to whether they are using resources wisely, to me that depends on how old they are. If they've been around for a few decades and haven't grown, maybe they should merge with someone. If they are a brand new board, maybe they'll grow.

If I'm not mistaken - they used to have 5 missionaries

 

[John of Japan]

If I'm not mistaken - they used to have 5 missionaries

Not a good sign for their future.

 

[Dr. Bob]

If churches become "mission boards" for laborers on the field, I pray the church does due diligence. I've worked with some who had no ideas of the red tape that must be done for US regs on finances, giving, social security, medical, etc.

We are holding the lifeline in the US to those working abroad and must be faithful in the painful details of paperwork, etc

 

[Dr. Bob]

We have classmates of ours now retired from the field. For 40+ years they raised support on deputation, served, came home on furlough and report to supporting churches, then back again. Repeat and repeat, faithfully.

Now they came home to a "mess" financially. Money that was received and dedicated to retirement was invested poorly. Social Security was paid ONLY for the husband and now the wife has ZERO benefits (and I'm guessing, worked harder than he did all those years, ministering and having kids). 72 and working at Walmart to get enough money to pay rent and a beat-up car.

This is not right.

 

[John of Japan]

We have classmates of ours now retired from the field. For 40+ years they raised support on deputation, served, came home on furlough and report to supporting churches, then back again. Repeat and repeat, faithfully.

Now they came home to a "mess" financially. Money that was received and dedicated to retirement was invested poorly. Social Security was paid ONLY for the husband and now the wife has ZERO benefits (and I'm guessing, worked harder than he did all those years, ministering and having kids). 72 and working at Walmart to get enough money to pay rent and a beat-up car.

This is not right.

Very sad. I am blessed in that we were able to retire from the field after 33 years and then teach. Hopefully I can teach as long as I'm alive, because we have little "retirement."

 

[Reynolds]

We have classmates of ours now retired from the field. For 40+ years they raised support on deputation, served, came home on furlough and report to supporting churches, then back again. Repeat and repeat, faithfully.

Now they came home to a "mess" financially. Money that was received and dedicated to retirement was invested poorly. Social Security was paid ONLY for the husband and now the wife has ZERO benefits (and I'm guessing, worked harder than he did all those years, ministering and having kids). 72 and working at Walmart to get enough money to pay rent and a beat-up car.

This is not right.

Out of curiosity, do many pastors still exempt out of Social Security?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Out of curiosity, do many pastors still exempt out of Social Security?

My generation knew the horror story that was ahead, so many of us opted out. As I see it today, it is still a mess, but most young men are staying in because of its ever-expanding programs of the past 50 years.

 

[Dr. Bob]

After seminary I took my first full-time pastorate (Dec 1970) and the next year had a well-known tax firm do my taxes to show me the "way". Tax fellow from my church showed two truths:

If I gave $500 to the church, I would owe $1000 to the government. If I gave $1000 to the church, I would owe $500 to the government. (1971 dollars)

and

If I stayed in Social Security, I would pay a percentage double what a factory worker paid (my share and business share as "self-employed"). I would pay on my parsonage as if I owned the house. I would probably never get back what I paid in unless I lived 20 years past age 65. And the system would be bankrupt well before then unless higher and higher taxes (for all) or rate for self-employed skyrocketed.

 

[Reynolds]

After seminary I took my first full-time pastorate (Dec 1970) and the next year had a well-known tax firm do my taxes to show me the "way". Tax fellow from my church showed two truths:

If I gave $500 to the church, I would owe $1000 to the government. If I gave $1000 to the church, I would owe $500 to the government. (1971 dollars)

and

If I stayed in Social Security, I would pay a percentage double what a factory worker paid (my share and business share as "self-employed"). I would pay on my parsonage as if I owned the house. I would probably never get back what I paid in unless I lived 20 years past age 65. And the system would be bankrupt well before then unless higher and higher taxes (for all) or rate for self-employed skyrocketed.

It's weird how different CPA give different advice. Our CPA told church that pastor was an employee just like any other church employee. Church was liable for all employer portions of taxes.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Our CPA told church that pastor was an employee just like any other church employee. Church was liable for all employer portions of taxes.

Ours (finance guy for church, too) said that the church should pay NO TAX, Zero. For the government to require payment would violate church/state issues.

So, if I wanted to be in SS, the church would give $$ extra to me so I could pay tax myself. If I didn't want SS, church would set up equivalent of 403b retirement to allow ME to invest money and not the fiscally-inept US congress.

This may still be an issue today - if a church writes a check to government for SS tax, is that "taxation" of a "tax-exempt" organization. Interesting thought

 

[Reynolds]

Ours (finance guy for church, too) said that the church should pay NO TAX, Zero. For the government to require payment would violate church/state issues.

So, if I wanted to be in SS, the church would give $$ extra to me so I could pay tax myself. If I didn't want SS, church would set up equivalent of 403b retirement to allow ME to invest money and not the fiscally-inept US congress.

This may still be an issue today - if a church writes a check to government for SS tax, is that "taxation" of a "tax-exempt" organization. Interesting thought

How did you pay your Janitor?

 

[agedman]

We have classmates of ours now retired from the field. For 40+ years they raised support on deputation, served, came home on furlough and report to supporting churches, then back again. Repeat and repeat, faithfully.

Now they came home to a "mess" financially. Money that was received and dedicated to retirement was invested poorly. Social Security was paid ONLY for the husband and now the wife has ZERO benefits (and I'm guessing, worked harder than he did all those years, ministering and having kids). 72 and working at Walmart to get enough money to pay rent and a beat-up car.

This is not right.

my wife and continue to send support to our missionaries that are retired from the field.

Why do churches think they should be dropped?

Put them on staff as an evangelist to those homebound saints.

Put them on staff as a home missionary to start another local church in the area.

Put them on staff as an associate pastor.

But do not drop their support.

 

[Salty]

My (former) home church decided they needed to do a lot of work on their building - so they dropped ALL support of ALL misionaries- including Carl, (about the time he retired) who had been a member of the church when he worked with BMM

 

[agedman]

I don’t know of a church I have been a member in which I have not encouraged them to be involved with retired missionaries.

Why not provide them housing given by members as part of their last gifts upon crossing into the care of our Lord.

They then can receive meals on wheels if necessary, and be used in the outreach of the church.

 

[John of Japan]

My (former) home church decided they needed to do a lot of work on their building - so they dropped ALL support of ALL misionaries- including Carl, (about the time he retired) who had been a member of the church when he worked with BMM

That hurts to read. They must have thought that God couldn't supply both the missionaries' needs and the church needs at the same time.