Reconciling Two

[Blank]

Here are two passages I have trouble with, how would you reconcile them?

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Matthew 11:25 (KJV) At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

If God is not willing that any perish, why does He hide certain things from certain people?
What is the best explanation without there being a contradiction on God's part?

 

[Blank]

No takers?

 

[KenH]

"but is longsuffering to us-ward: not to all the individuals of human nature, for the persons intended by us are manifestly distinguished from "some men" in the text, and from scoffers, mocking at the promise of Christ's coming, in the context, 2 Peter 3:3; and are expressly called beloved, 2 Peter 3:1; and God's longsuffering towards them is their salvation, 2 Peter 3:15, nor is it true of all men, that God is not willing that any of them should perish, and that everyone of them should come to repentance, since many of them do perish in their sins, and do not come to repentance, which would not be the case, if his determining will was otherwise; besides, a society or company of men are designed, to which the apostle himself belonged, and of which he was a part; and who are described, in his epistles, as the elect of God, called out of darkness, into marvellous light, and having obtained like precious faith with the apostles ... And upon account of these the Lord stays his coming till their number is complete in the effectual calling; and for their sakes he is longsuffering to others, and bears with a wicked world, with the idolatry, superstition, heresy, profaneness, and impiety, with which it abounds; but when the last man that belongs to that number is called, he will quickly descend in flames of fire, and burn the world, and the wicked in it, and take his chosen ones to himself."

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on 2 Peter 3:9

 

[Blank]

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on 2 Peter 3:9

Thank you for including this, I thought it was familiar. Will wait for an Arminian perspective.

 

[Silverhair]

if his determining will
in the effectual calling;
bears with a wicked world, with the idolatry, superstition, heresy, profaneness, and impiety,

Since John Gill was a calvinist that though God, through His decrees, determined all that would happen. Why would God then consider it long suffering that He "bears with a wicked world, with the idolatry, superstition, heresy, profaneness, and impiety," that He has determined?

God has not determined all that will happen but has in His sovereignty given man a free. While He desires all to trust in Him He has allowed man to choose to follow or reject Him.

The scribes and Pharisees had the same opportunity to hear and accept the truths spoken by Christ but in their pride rejected them. So we see not contradiction in those two verses you posted. God does desire all to come to Him but will not force anyone to do so.

 

[Van]

Here are two passages I have trouble with, how would you reconcile them?

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Matthew 11:25 (KJV) At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

If God is not willing that any perish, why does He hide certain things from certain people?
What is the best explanation without there being a contradiction on God's part?

Hi Blank, thanks for the question.

2 Peter 3:9 is expressing the idea God will allow (being longsuffering) the period between His first appearance and His second coming to be long to afford the opportunity for many people to be chosen for salvation during their lifetime.

The second verse (Matthew 11:25) addresses progressive revelation. God did not reveal, by kept concealed, facets of His plan for His redemption of a people to be chosen for His own possession. Since even today, people disagree on just what the plan is, so it is still a mystery or a partial mystery to some or all of us.

We, who live in the post New Testament period have sufficient revelation to "be reconciled" to God. But we all do not understand and embrace that revelation such that God reconciles us. Those among the reconciled have the calling to be effective witnesses for Christ, and help lead the lost to Christ.

I think the contrast between "babes" who are open to learning, and the "wise and prudent" who reject the gospel because it does not fit with their presuppositions. is a point we all need to consider.

 

[Blank]

The scribes and Pharisees had the same opportunity to hear and accept the truths spoken by Christ but in their pride rejected them.

So are you saying some are more depraved than others?( ‘in their pride rejected’ )

 

[Blank]

to be long to afford the opportunity for many people to be chosen for salvation during their lifetime.

Weren't many chosen before the foundation of the world?

The second verse (Matthew 11:25) addresses progressive revelation. God did not reveal, by {but?} kept concealed, facets of His plan for His redemption of a people to be chosen for His own possession. Since even today, people disagree on just what the plan is, so it is still a mystery or a partial mystery to some or all of us.

You think if God is unwilling that any should perish, he would make his 'mystery plan' clear.

We, who live in the post New Testament period have sufficient revelation to "be reconciled" to God.

There is sufficient revelation .....'unless one is wise and prudent',

I think the contrast between "babes" who are open to learning, and the "wise and prudent" who reject the gospel because it does not fit with their presuppositions. is a point we all need to consider.

... and this gets into question 'whether revelation can be resisted?'

 

[Silverhair]

So are you saying some are more depraved than others?( ‘in their pride rejected’ )

No that is not what I am saying.
We all have a free will and some will use it to reject God while others will use it to trust in Him.

While we are all sinners that does not preclude us from using the information that God has provide. Such as, creation, the gospel, conviction of the Holy Spirit, etc. Pride is just an outworking of our sinful nature.

 

[atpollard]

Here are two passages I have trouble with, how would you reconcile them?

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Matthew 11:25 (KJV) At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

If God is not willing that any perish, why does He hide certain things from certain people?
What is the best explanation without there being a contradiction on God's part?

Oh good grief.

What is the CONTEXT of 2 Peter 3?
WHO is “US” in ”us-ward”?
Why is God “longsuffering”?

Answer those questions and THEN you will understand what Peter is talking about when he states that God is “not willing that any should perish”.

 

[Blank]

We all have a free will and some will use it to reject God while others will use it to trust in Him.

That makes little sense in the light of this passage...

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[Blank]

Oh good grief.

What is the CONTEXT of 2 Peter 3?
WHO is “US” in ”us-ward”?
Why is God “longsuffering”?

Answer those questions and THEN you will understand what Peter is talking about when he states that God is “not willing that any should perish”.

I thought I made it quite clear that I'm trying to reconcile both statements of 'God is not willing any should perish' with 'thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent'. It's not just a matter of my conviction of 2Peter 3:9

 

[atpollard]

I thought I made it quite clear that I'm trying to reconcile both statements of 'God is not willing any should perish' with 'thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent'. It's not just a matter of my conviction of 2Peter 3:9

Once you look at the CONTEXT of 2 Peter 3:9, there is NOTHING to “reconcile”. Both say the same thing!

 

[Dave G]

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Try taking it in context with what we are told in the prior verses.
For example:

" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." ( 2 Peter 3:8-10 ).


Who do you see are the "us-ward", the "any" and the "all"?

 

[Silverhair]

That makes little sense in the light of this passage...

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

When you use a single verse taken out of context you can make it say just about anything you want. The cults do that all the time.

 

[Dave G]

If God is not willing that any perish, why does He hide certain things from certain people?
What is the best explanation without there being a contradiction on God's part?

When I finally understood who the "us-ward", "any" and "all" were in 2 Peter 3:9, there was no contradiction between the two.
Now ask yourself, if you're so inclined:

If God were not willing that any of mankind should perish, then why does He choose to hide things from the wise and prudent, and reveal them unto babes?

Dig into His word for the answers, my friend, and dig deep.
There's a whole lot that He has to say in there...

Things that it seems most preachers and teachers today only "hit the high points" on.

 

[Van]

Weren't many chosen before the foundation of the world?

You think if God is unwilling that any should perish, he would make his 'mystery plan' clear.

There is sufficient revelation .....'unless one is wise and prudent',

... and this gets into question 'whether revelation can be resisted?'

1) No human was chosen for salvation, or to be a people for God's own possession before they existed "not as a people" who had not "obtained mercy." Ephesians 1:4 says we were chosen "in Him" meaning when He was chosen individually as God's Lamb, Redeemer, we were chosen corporately as the target group, those believers to be redeemed by God's individual election.

2) His plan is no longer a mystery, thus He has revealed His plan.

3) Yes, not everyone who hears the gospel is able to understand it, such as Soil #1 of Matthew 13. Some have hardened hearts, others are only partially blinded by presuppositions. Others are open to God's word, the fields white for harvest. Recall the prodigal son, who "came to his senses."
So long as their is life, we are to continue our efforts to lead the lost to life.

4) Yes, the gospel revelation can be resisted or not fully embraced. See Soils # 2&3 of Matthew 13. We beg the lost "be reconciled to God" so the idea is that the lost at least need to desire salvation, but that action of course, does not cause or merit salvation.

 

[Blank]

Try taking it in context with what we are told in the prior verses.
For example:

" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." ( 2 Peter 3:8-10 ).


Who do you see are the "us-ward", the "any" and the "all"?

I see Judgment in vs.7

 

[Blank]

When you use a single verse taken out of context you can make it say just about anything you want. The cults do that all the time.

Agreed, but that is a two-way street. (Arminian leaners as well as Calvinist leaners.)

 

[Rye]

Hello Brother Blank. Great question.

I'll provide an understanding of these texts from a reformed perspective.

2 Peter 3:9 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The 'any' in this verse refers to the 'beloved' who are believers. It is not referring to all people universally. If God has given His grace to any of the elect, that means that He is not willing that any of them should perish but instead come to repentance and they most definitely will do so.

As for the other text you mentioned...

Matthew 11:25-27 - At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

The Father hides wisdom and understanding from the natural man who, because of their fallen nature, are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Corinthians 4:3-5 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

God has determined who will get mercy and who will get justice. Nobody will get injustice. When you look at it from this point of view, you'll see that there is no need for reconciliation but rather there exists great harmony between these texts. I'm sure others will try to refute my argument and I will let you make up your mind about what makes the most sense to you.

God bless.