Recreational drug use

[Born Again]

Please accept my public apology Richard. I will say though that your sarcasm was almost a bit too convincing. Besides...there are probably some here (no names mentioned):tear: for whom that kind of a post would not have been sarcasm...but rather factual. I've been around here for awhile and have seen some unbelievable and incredibly stupid things said by folks who profess to be in the grace of God. Signs of the times we live in I guess.

Bro.Greg:saint:

Bro. Greg, I agree with your post and share your frustrations in regards to alcohol. The "sugarcoating" of alcohol in society as a whole and on this board is sickening.

 

[Ed B]

Christians should be screaming for folks to stay away from that stuff.
But we're selfish. An an increase in our own personal wickedness will cause our love to grow cold.

We can do that without falsely labeling moderate consumption sin. We have no right to provide editorial corrections to Holy Scripture. I don't object to the intent, which is to warn people of the pitfalls and hazards of alcohol and for Christians to live sober lives amongst the unsaved as an example. But I object to a method that includes labeling all consumption of alcohol as sin in order to reach that objective. It doesn't hold up to scripture.

Zaac, even though you are clearly opposed to Christians partaking in alcohol, I am not saying that you label all consumption as sin.

 

[Gina B]

I have to wonder if alcohol is spoken of and warned against because it is so easy to misuse, where marijuana is a plant, used for healing, and is much, much harder to abuse.

There is no reason to think there is any religious prohibition against any certain herb. If anything, there is a warning that government will try to declare things unlawful or wrong that were created for good, or to prohibit things and try to make it sound holy, like when the disciples were hungry on the Sabbath and Jesus fed them and was looked down on because it was "prohibited" by law. The law shouldn't prohibit good things, and the Bible does tell us that every herb created was good and for our benefit.

It didn't say to go smoke them. LOL

I do think you bring up a good point though. One doesn't have to smoke marijuana for the benefits, but if that's the choice...I love the comparison of legal marijuana to legal alcohol and using it recreationally. There is no way anybody should sit here and say it's okay to drink alcohol in moderation, but then say that it would be wrong to use marijuana in moderation in places where it is legal. If anything, marijuana seems to be the better choice, given there are no warnings against it and it is a given herb by our Creator.

Seems the safe choice is not to use ANY mind altering stuff for recreation. That word is rather amusing. Recreation. Is picking up a glass and taking a sip all that recreational? :laugh: "Why, this is a blast and such great exercise!"

 

[Born Again]

You never know on this board. I think when you've had to bury a child...an entire family in your immediate family or community because of this stuff, any excuse for using it loses it's luster.

When you've seen marriages torn apart...when you've seen folks lose everything because they are nasty, vomit and go to the bathroom on themselves drunks...when you've seen wives nearly beaten to death...when you're the first one on the scene of that accident and bodies have been flung from the car and you smell the alcohol...when you go to the morgue to identify your child's body because he took his life and in his journal you see that the use of all the drugs started with that first drink...

Christians should be screaming for folks to stay away from that stuff.

But we're selfish. An an increase in our own personal wickedness will cause our love to grow cold.

Agree Zach! We should ask ourselves are we comfortable putting a "Budweiser, the King of Beers" bumper sticker on our vehicles? How about wearing a "Heineken, Open your world today!" t-shirt while out in public? Some may say I wouldn't wear the shirt in public or put the sticker on my car. If drinking is okay, then what difference would it make to you?

 

[Fred's Wife]

Will all due respect, I believe you missed the point of my post. (Sarcasm... hint hint).

Richard, you almost had me convinced too!

 

[Born Again]

Richard, you almost had me convinced too!

Since I'm still kind of new, I can fly under the radar sometimes. :tongue3:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

After reading Sister Judith's OP and every subsequent post in this thread I guess I'll toss my 2cents worth in the hat. I'll also mention that I'm not gonna dignify the closest previous post in this thread with a response. I am gonna shift gears and toss another iron into the fire/discussion. Alcohol has been the prime factor in the probable damnation and definite DEATH of numerous of my own loved ones and it is ONLY by the grace of God that it didn't get it's addictive and destructive "hooks" into me. I will say that it (drinking)was at least one of the "ingredients" in much personal shame and sin in my own life over the years. Some of the despicable things I did under the "influence" are forever unmentionable, but thankfully forgiven by my loving, merciful God.
That said, bless you sister Judith...you have it RIGHT. You too Zaac. Now, the other iron I'm gonna pitch into the fire is this....How can ANYONE who names the name of Christ as Lord and Saviour SPEND the money that He provides you to fatten the coffers of these modern day merchants of death and debauchery such as Anheuser-Busch, Miller brewing, or any of the liquor or wine brewers or dealers? Can you honestly do that with a clear conscience? I'm just gonna leave it at that. It is a sad day that we live in. "Come out from among them and be ye seperate..."

Bro.Greg:saint:

A post well worth repeating. Thank you Gregory

 

[Fred's Wife]

I have read several of the posts about if a Christian can drink alcohol or not. In the end those who say no still say no and those who say yes still say yes so this is not about is it right to use alcohol and I am asking please do not high-jack the thread into that.

My question is to those who feel it is acceptable for believers to drink a glass of wine or a bear or what ever as long as they do not get drunk.

So my question is if you hold that drinking is acceptable is it also acceptable to smoke a joint or take a pill or shoot up or snort small amounts as long as the person does not get high?

Great OP Judith!

After reading through the 3 pages of this thread, I don't believe that anyone really answered Judith's question

if you hold that drinking is acceptable is it also acceptable to smoke a joint or take a pill or shoot up or snort small amounts as long as the person does not get high?

Are you folks simply "dancing" around the question in order to "justify" moderate drinking of alcohol (which, BTW, is a legal drug)? Moderate drinking is a joke when you are dealing with a drug. How much is too much? Drinking until you get a "buzz" is not moderate drinking, according to the law in most states, if not all. If you get stopped for driving "buzzed", it's the same as getting stopped for driving under the influence.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Here is what I hope....

I sincerely HOPE that those of you who are professing Christians and claim to be moderate drinkers will, if you have done so and are out on the road driving, get pulled over and forced to take a breathalyzer test. Maybe that would be an appropriate wake-up call for you. I'm reasonably sure the law officer WON'T be impressed by your version of "enlightened Christianity". There is ZERO benefit to your testimony for the Lord to be had by consuming alcoholic beverages.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Ex hippie here. :wavey:

I did it all, way back when, but in 1982 I got born again. I imedietly lost all desire for EVERYTHING. alchohol. reefer. drugs..all of it was gone, being replaced with Christ.

This is my take...

The hard stuff, heroin, cocain, etc: Dealers and users should be delt with as harshly as possible.

Reefer: It should be legalised, but dealt with the same as driving drunk. If you want that junk, buy it, or grow it. Its natural, and God originated it. But...if you are weaving or erratic on the road....you go to jail.

 

[Fred's Wife]

I sincerely HOPE that those of you who are professing Christians and claim to be moderate drinkers will, if you have done so and are out on the road driving, get pulled over and forced to take a breathalyzer test. Maybe that would be an appropriate wake-up call for you. I'm reasonably sure the law officer WON'T be impressed by your version of "enlightened Christianity". There is ZERO benefit to your testimony for the Lord to be had by consuming alcoholic beverages.

Bro.Greg:saint:

Amen Bro. Greg! :thumbsup:

 

[webdog]

I sincerely HOPE that those of you who are professing Christians and claim to be moderate drinkers will, if you have done so and are out on the road driving, get pulled over and forced to take a breathalyzer test. Maybe that would be an appropriate wake-up call for you. I'm reasonably sure the law officer WON'T be impressed by your version of "enlightened Christianity". There is ZERO benefit to your testimony for the Lord to be had by consuming alcoholic beverages.

Bro.Greg:saint:

So you hope someone drinks and drives. Nice.

This thread would have gotten a hearty amen from the Pharisees. Fact is God not only permits drinking, but has encouraged it. Denying that shows spiritual immaturity.

 

[Born Again]

So you hope someone drinks and drives. Nice.

This thread would have gotten a hearty amen from the Pharisees. Fact is God not only permits drinking, but has encouraged it. Denying that shows spiritual immaturity.[/QUOTE
You're so focused on spin, Bro. Greg's point goes right over your head.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

When the lighthouse on the hill is partaking of something that is as sytematically destructive as this, it's a shame that we can come up with any reason why we partake of it. it's selfish and reason for some folks to get off the hill and down on their knees.

Any number of things, used beyond the level of moderation, are destructive. Eating bacon every day of your life clogs your arteries. So should we say, "No bacon at all," or should we say "Bacon only in moderation"? Any food, any drink, can be a health concern or a behavioral concern if used obsessively. Why single out alcohol? As I said earlier, and no one has refuted (because they can't) Jesus drank alcohol. But He did so in moderation.

Jesus didn't sin, we know that. So drinking -- or eating, or exercising, or working or whatever -- if not in excess, is not a sin. We cannot include illegal drugs in that qualifier, however, because universally they cause harm no matter how little might be used. The same cannot be said for alcohol, which (as I also said earlier) can be beneficial in moderation.

3 million violence victims a year report that their attackers were drunk.

Many if not most of those same domestic violence cases occur whether alcohol is involved or not.

Nearly 35000 deaths from it in a year.

Not sure whether you're talking about the deaths from domestic violence, or from alcohol, or a combination of the two.

But for some reason,, the lighthouse on the hill wants to be known as people who are okay partaking of this stuff?

Then why cite a study in this thread that indicates that alcohol is a gateway drug ahead of marijuana? As a licensed addictions counselor, I can tell you they can study anything they want, but the truth is that anything is a gateway to addiction if the addict puts him/herself in the position to be influenced in a direction they want to go anyway.

It goes right back to 2 Tim 3. People will become lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. We seek to bring glory to ourselves and our own desires and not to God. And thus will seek out any reason we can why our Christian liberty justifies us partaking of these things.

There is nothing to justify. All things are legal, just not all profitable. Anything can become an addiction, an obsession, a sin. The key is to know where your weaknesses lie and not allow them to be fed.

 

[InTheLight]

I sincerely HOPE that those of you who are professing Christians and claim to be moderate drinkers will, if you have done so and are out on the road driving, get pulled over and forced to take a breathalyzer test. Maybe that would be an appropriate wake-up call for you. I'm reasonably sure the law officer WON'T be impressed by your version of "enlightened Christianity". There is ZERO benefit to your testimony for the Lord to be had by consuming alcoholic beverages.

Bro.Greg:saint:

I got pulled over once after having been drinking. The only wake-up call I got was that police deliberately set up situations to pull people over and test for alcohol. I did their stupid human tricks, passed their breathalyzer test, and went home.

As to the testimony having zero benefit, I can tell you that it is of less benefit to going around telling people you DON'T drink for religious reasons. How many times have I told someone where I go to church, "Bloomington Baptist Church", and they say, "Oh, you're Baptist, you think drinking is a sin. That's weird." You're pretty much dead in the water as to witnessing to this person. I can only imagine how much more you can alienate people if you reply, "Yes, drinking is a sin."

Oh, and I did not hand over a tract to the cops after I got pulled over. Unless you think it would be a good idea to somehow work "I'm a Christian, you know" into the conversation after you've been pulled over for something.

 

[InTheLight]

Great OP Judith!

After reading through the 3 pages of this thread, I don't believe that anyone really answered Judith's question

if you hold that drinking is acceptable is it also acceptable to smoke a joint or take a pill or shoot up or snort small amounts as long as the person does not get high?

Are you folks simply "dancing" around the question in order to "justify" moderate drinking of alcohol (which, BTW, is a legal drug)? Moderate drinking is a joke when you are dealing with a drug. How much is too much? Drinking until you get a "buzz" is not moderate drinking, according to the law in most states, if not all. If you get stopped for driving "buzzed", it's the same as getting stopped for driving under the influence.

Tell me how I did not answer this question, when I stated:

1. Alcohol is legal and can be drunk in moderation. Furthermore, the relative alcohol content is stamped on the label.
2. I don't think it is possible to smoke pot in moderation. Ditto for cocaine or heroin. Also cocaine and heroin is highly physically addictive, so by definition cannot be done in moderation. Using these drugs will cause a heightened sense of altered state.
3. Even in states where pot is legal it is supposed to be used for medicinal purposes.
4. Taking pills when you don't have a prescription, or taking more than prescribed is an obvious attempt at getting high.
5. The effects of alcohol can be blunted by consuming food, not so with these other substances.
6. There are reliable methods of measuring the amount of intoxication with alcohol, not so with these other substances.
7. These other drugs are fast acting so a person might imbibe more than they intended, thus abuse the drug. Alcohol is a progressive acting drug. Usually a person can discern when they are being affected and can back off.

I would also add that:
8. Snorting coke, smoking weed, shooting heroin, or taking pills is not something that is done in a social setting. You don't select a certain strain of marijuana to go with your fish compote dinner.
9. Snorting coke, shooting heroin, smoking weed, or taking pills is something one does with the express purpose of altering your conscious state. Unlike moderate drinking of alcohol there is no health benefits to taking it.

 

[Born Again]

Any number of things, used beyond the level of moderation, are destructive. Eating bacon every day of your life clogs your arteries. So should we say, "No bacon at all," or should we say "Bacon only in moderation"? Any food, any drink, can be a health concern or a behavioral concern if used obsessively. Why single out alcohol? As I said earlier, and no one has refuted (because they can't) Jesus drank alcohol. But He did so in moderation.

1 Corinthians 8:13 "Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble."

How many partakers, being observed by their brothers, have caused one of their brothers to stumble?

 

[InTheLight]

1 Corinthians 8:13 "Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble."

How many partakers, being observed by their brothers, have caused one of their brothers to stumble?

Not sure about the actual numbers but I would say partakers cause less brothers to stumble than preachers (and others) that incorrectly teach that drinking is a sin. After all, if the correct theology was taught--drunkenness is a sin, having a drink is not--there would be no weaker brothers on this issue!

 

[webdog]

So you hope someone drinks and drives. Nice.

This thread would have gotten a hearty amen from the Pharisees. Fact is God not only permits drinking, but has encouraged it. Denying that shows spiritual immaturity.[/QUOTE
You're so focused on spin, Bro. Greg's point goes right over your head.

He didn't have a valid point. Neither have you. We have already said breaking the law and drunkenness were sin. We leave it at that as that is where the Bible does. You add to it with your manmade laws and tradition

 

[DHK]

I got pulled over once after having been drinking. The only wake-up call I got was that police deliberately set up situations to pull people over and test for alcohol. I did their stupid human tricks, passed their breathalyzer test, and went home.

As to the testimony having zero benefit, I can tell you that it is of less benefit to going around telling people you DON'T drink for religious reasons. How many times have I told someone where I go to church, "Bloomington Baptist Church", and they say, "Oh, you're Baptist, you think drinking is a sin. That's weird." You're pretty much dead in the water as to witnessing to this person. I can only imagine how much more you can alienate people if you reply, "Yes, drinking is a sin."

Oh, and I did not hand over a tract to the cops after I got pulled over. Unless you think it would be a good idea to somehow work "I'm a Christian, you know" into the conversation after you've been pulled over for something.

1. I'll bet that was a real Christian testimony to the police who thought you were drunk enough in the first place that they required you to do those tests.

2. It would have been a fantastic testimony to any new Christian believer, or for that fact any Christian at all that would have been riding with you.

3. If others were riding with you and you were drunk enough to be pulled over; drunk enough to go through their "tests" what would others with you think of their safety?

4. What would your family think of your safety once you got home?

5. How many lives did you put in danger on the way home?

The very fact that you were pulled over at all, coupled with the fact that they made you get out of the car and go through a battery of tests, is about the most embarrassing and shameful thing that I can think of for a Christian. Your testimony as Christian witness was ruined that day.

I have been in the ministry for over 30 years. I have never been pulled over by thy police for drinking--or for any reason at all for that matter--never.