Redeems those He died for from the Prison of Unbelief !

[Psalty]

You scoff at it. I started this thread and your responses have pretty much scoffing and calling it calvinism, no matter what scripture provided.

Friend, you didnt post anything beyond scripture in your OP and some one liner Calvinist doctrines to label them.

When context has been pointed out to you, you dont argue, you just call it scoffing. You dont answer objections or interpretive arguments, you just deflect to one line retorts.

 

[Psalty]

I seriously don’t have the time, however please see scriptural references to Election.

What Does the Bible Say About Election?

Bible verses about Election

www.openbible.info

I totally understand. However, election needs to start in Exodus to grasp the sense of the election of the people of God. Most people, like that OpenBible website, start in the New Testament with an Augustinian understanding of what it means. I think it makes more sense to see how God uses election first in the OT, since NT election follows the faithfulness of the OT election purpose.

Anyhow, I think I’m good with this thread, catch you in another down the road, Brother

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Scoffers are people that cannot consider that they are wrong or off the mark. It is a pride issue.

Are you by chance separating Paul and the apostles contributions in Bible from Jesus word. You are it doing that are you? You guys are confusing me.

You scoff at it. I started this thread and your responses have pretty much scoffing and calling it calvinism, no matter what scripture provided.

the term ‘Calvinism’ is fastly become a pejorative and really should not be used unless someone specifically claims Calvin’s teaching as gospel… and I’m not trying to get personal but there are some in here that just despise systematic theology and so reject Calvinism (reformed theology). I don’t honestly know where this comes from but it’s integrated into many Baptists churches both here and abroad and has a wide following amongst various denominations like (presbyterian’s, reformed as well as some Baptist churches). In a while, we can all debate the structure of systematic theology. I’d be very hard pressed to categorize it as un biblical.) besides we are Christians after all… charged with loving our neighbors as well as our enemies.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I totally understand. However, election needs to start in Exodus to grasp the sense of the election of the people of God. Most people, like that OpenBible website, start in the New Testament with an Augustinian understanding of what it means. I think it makes more sense to see how God uses election first in the OT, since NT election follows the faithfulness of the OT election purpose.

Anyhow, I think I’m good with this thread, catch you in another down the road, Brother

However you brother are ignoring the Isaiah passages. For instance:
Isaiah 42: 1-9

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As a note of concern, I don’t wanna get stuck in the weeds of doctrine and dogma. Dogma, in its broadest sense, is a belief held definitively and without the possibility of reform. Generally It may be in the form of an official system of principles or doctrine of a religion.

Now I consider myself a reasonable man and I’m always up for debate, even controversial dialogue as long as it doesn’t devolve into emotional and/or violent backlash… keep it civil. God is watching and so are other people. Let’s make it productive not make it a dog fight.

 

[Brightfame52]

Friend, you didnt post anything beyond scripture in your OP and some one liner Calvinist doctrines to label them.

You scoffed at it, and in general you scoff at calvinism which to me tulip truth is the Gospel. So whenever you want to reject scripture truth I make, you conviently scoff it off as calvinism. I have given at least 7 posts of explaining my op point with scripture, and you scoff it off as calvinism.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I totally understand. However, election needs to start in Exodus to grasp the sense of the election of the people of God. Most people, like that OpenBible website, start in the New Testament with an Augustinian understanding of what it means. I think it makes more sense to see how God uses election first in the OT, since NT election follows the faithfulness of the OT election purpose.

Anyhow, I think I’m good with this thread, catch you in another down the road, Brother

You should expand on this then… but do it on your own thread.

 

[Charlie24]

Friend, you didnt post anything beyond scripture in your OP and some one liner Calvinist doctrines to label them.

When context has been pointed out to you, you dont argue, you just call it scoffing. You dont answer objections or interpretive arguments, you just deflect to one line retorts.

I'm sure you're aware that you're dealing with hyper-Calvinism.

The constant motion of beating your head against a brick wall.

 

[Psalty]

However you brother are ignoring the Isaiah passages. For instance:
Isaiah 42: 1-9

Respectfully, I disagree Let me explain Isaiah 42:1-9:

“Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold;
My chosen one in whom My soul delights.
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the nations.
“He will not cry out or raise His voice,
Nor make His voice heard in the street.
“A bruised reed He will not break
And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish;
He will faithfully bring forth justice.
“He will not be disheartened or crushed
Until He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law.”

Thus says God the LORD,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it
And spirit to those who walk in it,
“I am the LORD, I have called You in righteousness,
I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You,
And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the nations,
To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the dungeon
And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.
“I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.
“Behold, the former things have come to pass,
Now I declare new things;
Before they spring forth I proclaim them to you.”
— Isaiah 42:1-9

The Chosen One is Christ, as God through Isaiah states here. God is choosing and appointing Christ as the light to the nations. God even verbalizes this directly in the New Testament in Luke 9:35 at the transfiguration:

Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
— Luke 9:35

Lastly, we are chosen because we are “IN CHRIST” the Chosen one of God. Ephesians 1:4

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
— Ephesians 1:4

It does not say that He chose us “to be in Him”.
It says He chose us “in Him”.
When we believe and put our faith and trust in Christ, we are in put “in Him.” Because we are in Christ, we are chosen and elect and predestined to be conformed to the Image of His Son, Holy and Blameless before the Father (Eph 1:4).

But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
— Galatians 3:25-27

You are correct, this does need a seperate thread. I will start one sometime after I finish preaching next Sunday… I have more to focus on at the moment, but would like to devote a proper OP to this.

May God bless your day for His kingdom!

 

[37818]

Galatians 3:26-27, For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Romans 6:3-4, Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

[Brightfame52]

God by the Death of Christ has reconciled many for whom Chrisr died, by His death even while they are being enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now being thus reconciled they are not under any condemnation from God even as unbelievers, Thanks solely to the Death of Christ.1

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You should expand on this then… but do it on your own thread.

OKAY then I have questions a lot actually starting with both Genesis 15 and 17 where G-D promises Abraham descendants as numerous as the stars with land stretching from the river of Egypt, all the way to the Euphrates, a chosen people, a divine inheritance. This is foundation level stuff, both of Jewish identity and of Christian theology, and this isn’t an exaggeration for the geopolitics of the modern Middle East, some of the territorial claims happening right now today in the real world connect back to these these chapters directly, and it was always taught as unique, one of a kind, God choosing one people in an act that had never happened before and would never happen again, but if you read ancient texts regarding eastern treaties, Syrian going back over 1000 years before Christ this format shows up again and again again, scholars call it a treaty and it is pretty straightforward. A powerful king offers land and protection to a weaker party and that party pledges loyalty and obedience in return perform a ritual to make it official and there are blessings to that to which holds the deal… and curses if anyone breaks the deal and that’s exactly what Genesis describes between the powerful king & Abraham who is the vessel…circumcision being the ritual that seals the deal and the blessings and curses they come later in Deuteronomy. It’s not a loose parallel or a vague resemblance. It’s the same template and this is something that gets taught in seminary with ancient eastern treaty forms are part of the curriculum …pastors with graduate degrees in theology all learning about these parallels. They’ve all studied about them. They’ve written papers about them yet on Sunday morning, they are presented as nothing like it ever existed before or since, as if God invented this format from scratch specifically for Abraham. The gap between what’s known in the classroom and what’s preached from the pulpit, that’s not ignorance that’s a choice. Could someone please tell me, why is that?

 

[Ben1445]

OKAY then I have questions a lot actually starting with both Genesis 15 and 17 where G-D promises Abraham descendants as numerous as the stars with land stretching from the river of Egypt, all the way to the Euphrates, a chosen people, a divine inheritance. This is foundation level stuff, both of Jewish identity and of Christian theology, and this isn’t an exaggeration for the geopolitics of the modern Middle East, some of the territorial claims happening right now today in the real world connect back to these these chapters directly, and it was always taught as unique, one of a kind, God choosing one people in an act that had never happened before and would never happen again, but if you read ancient texts regarding eastern treaties, Syrian going back over 1000 years before Christ this format shows up again and again again, scholars call it a treaty and it is pretty straightforward. A powerful king offers land and protection to a weaker party and that party pledges loyalty and obedience in return perform a ritual to make it official and there are blessings to that to which holds the deal… and curses if anyone breaks the deal and that’s exactly what Genesis describes between the powerful king & Abraham who is the vessel…circumcision being the ritual that seals the deal and the blessings and curses they come later in Deuteronomy. It’s not a loose parallel or a vague resemblance. It’s the same template and this is something that gets taught in seminary with ancient eastern treaty forms are part of the curriculum …pastors with graduate degrees in theology all learning about these parallels. They’ve all studied about them. They’ve written papers about them yet on Sunday morning, they are presented as nothing like it ever existed before or since, as if God invented this format from scratch specifically for Abraham. The gap between what’s known in the classroom and what’s preached from the pulpit, that’s not ignorance that’s a choice. Could someone please tell me, why is that?

It is either because they didn’t teach it in my college, or I didn’t take that class or I fell asleep.
I can’t answer for anyone else.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

God by the Death of Christ has reconciled many for whom Chrisr died, by His death even while they are being enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now being thus reconciled they are not under any condemnation from God even as unbelievers, Thanks solely to the Death of Christ.1

I agree… but once the HS catches up to ya, he changes your heart, your conscience etc. thus you want to believe & why not believe?

 

[Silverhair]

I agree

So the whole world is without condemnation BF?

2Co_5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Ben1445]

So the whole world is without condemnation BF?

2Co_5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

But as any Cal will tell you, the world doesn’t mean the world. It means only a few. Apparently, God doesn’t always use the right words.

 

[Brightfame52]

I agree… but once the HS catches up to ya, he changes your heart, your conscience etc. thus you want to believe & why not believe?

I have no problem with that, thats also part of the saving from unbelief

 

[Psalty]

OKAY then I have questions a lot actually starting with both Genesis 15 and 17 where G-D promises Abraham descendants as numerous as the stars with land stretching from the river of Egypt, all the way to the Euphrates, a chosen people, a divine inheritance. This is foundation level stuff, both of Jewish identity and of Christian theology, and this isn’t an exaggeration for the geopolitics of the modern Middle East, some of the territorial claims happening right now today in the real world connect back to these these chapters directly, and it was always taught as unique, one of a kind, God choosing one people in an act that had never happened before and would never happen again, but if you read ancient texts regarding eastern treaties, Syrian going back over 1000 years before Christ this format shows up again and again again, scholars call it a treaty and it is pretty straightforward. A powerful king offers land and protection to a weaker party and that party pledges loyalty and obedience in return perform a ritual to make it official and there are blessings to that to which holds the deal… and curses if anyone breaks the deal and that’s exactly what Genesis describes between the powerful king & Abraham who is the vessel…circumcision being the ritual that seals the deal and the blessings and curses they come later in Deuteronomy. It’s not a loose parallel or a vague resemblance. It’s the same template and this is something that gets taught in seminary with ancient eastern treaty forms are part of the curriculum …pastors with graduate degrees in theology all learning about these parallels. They’ve all studied about them. They’ve written papers about them yet on Sunday morning, they are presented as nothing like it ever existed before or since, as if God invented this format from scratch specifically for Abraham. The gap between what’s known in the classroom and what’s preached from the pulpit, that’s not ignorance that’s a choice. Could someone please tell me, why is that?

Think of it this way:

1. Fall -> Flood -> Noah to carry on the Seed to crush the Serpent and Sin
2. Babel -> Nationalizing -> God choses Abraham (and Israel) to be His nation and carry on the Seed
3. Crucifixion -> De-nationalizing at Pentecost -> God choses all who repent and have faith in His Son, the Seed, to receive the Holy Spirit and become part of Israel. Not from works, but from faith.

What you speak of is the suzerainty treaty which Deuteronomy is modeled after. But God made many covenants that weren’t based on this, so not sure how you are thinking this affects things?