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Redemption
- Thread starter Primitive Baptist
- Start date
by your standard, wouldn't this be accomplished against the free will of man?
Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]
Actually, he's almost right. There are only two minor things wrong with his statement:
1. He should have said "If you don't exercise your free will to make the right decision..."
2. His advice is too late by 6,000 years or more.
Two reasons:Originally posted by Primitive Baptist:
Question: Why does man think he has the authority to kill animals and eat them? When the little piglets are born, some are set aside for a different use than the others. Man does this. Why?
(Moderators: This is not off subject...I'm going somewhere with this.)
1. The authority is God-given (Genesis)
2. You can't make a good BLT with brocolli, lettuce and tomato
Here is the problem, your focus is on man. How can your purpose be to Glorify God, when you cannot get past yourself?
The scriptures are about God's Revelation of Himself to man; who has fallen from a condition of original righteousness, through his own will.
Even the condemnation of the lost will serve to Glorify God.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
Thank you!
1 Corinthians 5:3-5 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Notice that in chapter 4 verses 4-5 Paul says that he doesn't even judge his own salvation. He has confidence that he will be found righteous, but he is unwilling to make the final judgement. Paul instructs us to wait until the day of the Lord and God's judgement.
In chapter 5, Paul restates that our judgement will be on the day of the Lord, which isn't until Jesus' return. I don't know why so many are blind to these statesments of salvation.
When did I ever do that?
[ February 07, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Tuor ]
No my emphasis is on the complete statement. One must both hear and do. Hearing is only half the message. It seems to me that you are totally ignoring half the statement. That is a dangerous thing to do.
1 Corinthians 4:4-5 For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.
1 Corinthians 5:3-5 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Notice that in chapter 4 verses 4-5 Paul says that he doesn't even judge his own salvation. He has confidence that he will be found righteous, but he is unwilling to make the final judgement. Paul instructs us to wait until the day of the Lord and God's judgement.
In chapter 5, Paul restates that our judgement will be on the day of the Lord, which isn't until Jesus' return. I don't know why so many are blind to these statesments of salvation.
When did I ever do that?[ February 07, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Tuor ]
Y
Yelsew
Guest
OK Frogman,
"and he also saw the person of Christ Jesus?" Excuse me?
This is a correct biblical statement, on which part I commend you. However, it must be in line with scripture.
Romans 8.1 says there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
thus, the judgement you and I will face at the coming of the Lord cannot be unto condemnation. Rather this judgement answers to that of your comparison at Luke and Matt, where the 'doing' is after salvation and that which is brought into judgement is that which is done after salvation with rewards in view.
Those who are in Christ Jesus are not to be brought into judgement for condemnation, but the works they have done since receiving that will be.
This is so because the judgement upon believers was passed at Calvary upon Christ. Because this has been accomplished through the eternal Spirit by the eternal Son, it is an eternal gift of life. If you will yourself into it, then you are just as likely to will yourself out of it.
The Bible teaches us we each have a sin that easily besets us. If we were able to apply scriptures which teach works for salvation we would ultimately find this eternal life cannot be eternal. Just as I willed myself into the position as a child of God, once this sin (which so easily besets me) comes along, I would will myself out of this position and engage in that sin; once satisfied in lusts of my flesh, I would then again turn to God and repent, thus requiring that Christ be crucified anew, according to Heb. 6 this is impossible. But as a man able to will myself into a place it follows I would also be able to will myself out of that place.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
You're excused.
Paul did see the Glorified Christ. You can note that in your reading where Paul makes reference to Christ Jesus, whereas the other apostles predominantly refer to Jesus Christ.
Acts 9 says his companions saw no man. Wouldn't this mean that during or immediately after Paul was relating his experience to his fellow travelers who upon hearing that he saw a man told him they did not.
Who do you think Paul saw?
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Here is the problem, your focus is on man. How can your purpose be to Glorify God, when you cannot get past yourself?
The scriptures are about God's Revelation of Himself to man; who has fallen from a condition of original righteousness, through his own will.
Even the condemnation of the lost will serve to Glorify God.</font>[/QUOTE]Without man there would be no bible, for there would be no one to whom God should reveal himself.
Yes, the Story in the Bible is God's redemption of Man, but it is man that needs redemption, not God. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? God places tremendous importance in Man, why shouldn't I at least acknowledge the object of God's concern in the manner that He does?
Do you not realize that there is an ongoing battle between good and evil and that Man is the prize?
Does God need us? NO, He hasn't needed us from eternity to eternity, if God had not Created, He would still be God from eternity to eternity. However, He did Create, and He created man to be the highest form of life in his creation for this earth. He gave man spirit with many of the attributes that He himself possesses including free will, grace, love, mercy, justice, among others.
It is right to look at man as being something very special to God. So quit selling yourself short, and do what is right to do for foregiven and redeemed man.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
The scriptures you are misquoting!
Primitive Baptist
New Member
The reason I asked the question about the piglets is to demonstrate the authority that we have. Man does not say, "Oh, I'll be fair and won't kill any of them." No, man is unmerciful, but expects mercy from God as if He is obligated to save us. Farmers take a certain number of piglets when they are born. They have no chance to be saved from the meat chopper, but does man care? Do we take into consideration that they are creatures? No. We are WORMS according to Job. WORMS WORMS WORMS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing is good about us. We need God and wihout Him we will eternally perish.
Primitive Baptist
New Member
The reason I asked the question about the piglets is to demonstrate the authority that we have. Gd has the same authority. Man does not say, "Oh, I'll be fair and won't kill any of them." No, man is unmerciful, but expects mercy from God as if He is obligated to save us. Farmers take a certain number of piglets when they are born. They have no chance to be saved from the meat chopper, but does man care? Do we take into consideration that they are creatures? No. Well God has authority over us as a potter does the clay. We are WORMS according to Job. WORMS WORMS WORMS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing is good about us. We need God and wihout Him we will eternally perish.
I do not see how the fact that the elect will not be condemned shows any contradiction with the 1 Corinthians quotes I posted.
Jesus described our sin as a debt that we owe God. Jesus paid the price and continues to pay that price throughout our lives. We don't stop sinning after we are saved. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. As long as we are alive, Jesus' sacrifice is continually paying that debt that we can't repay.
Your illustration of Jesus having to be sacrificed again is wrong for this reason. Jesus' one time sacrifice is sufficient for all the sins that everyone could ever commit. It will only be used to cover the sins of the few elect.
These scripture are not speaking of judgement as to condemnation, but as to rewards.
If our judgement is yet to come, though we are in Christ, then what hope have we in this world, if it were so that we must wait to a future time to hear our sentence.
I read your first posts to be questioning what must be done to be saved; I answered these.
Next you allude to a belief through Luke 6 that this salvation must be earned and could be lost.
I have refuted this. Scripture does not teach anywhere that man is able to believe before he is acted upon by God.
The Arminian favorite scripture Rom. 10.9 is often quoted to stand alone; conveniently ignored is the context of this scripture including vs. 14 which plainly states believe comes before He is called upon.
"How then shall they call on him in shom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Even according to this scripture the celebrated "tract" used in spreading the Gospel is useless.
I simply believe salvation is a gift of God; I believe that faith in Christ is this gift; I believe that before a spiritually dead man can call upon the Lord, he must be quickened by the Spirit. I believe having been drawn to God through Christ by the Holy Spirit a believer is eternally secure regardless of his doing, though I do believe the works will be present to at least a minimal degree because of the indwelling of the Spirit of God.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forh the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal. 4.6
Paul did not arbitrarily put these scriptures into the Bible.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Frogman,
Is that a Baptists stance you take on the passages that I posted?
Have you been editing your bible again?
Is that a Baptists stance you take on the passages that I posted?
Have you been editing your bible again?
I haven't read the whole thread, but is someone looking for this?
Acts 9:17
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord–Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here–has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
Acts 9:17
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord–Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here–has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
If you call saying that you don't believe it refuting it, then I'd agree with you. If you call refuting my point proving my position is wrong, then I must say "refuting is in the eye of the beholder".
No, these verses are talking about the elect. They are there for a purpose.
The scripture at Acts 9 says the companions of Paul heard the voice but saw no man. vs. 7
And when Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were open, he saw no man. vs. 8
This does not say Paul did not see Christ when he spoke to him.
Ch. 22.11 says and when I could not see for the glory of the light.
this after the completion of Christ's instructions in vs. 10.
Neither of these say Paul did not see Christ, but that for the glory of the light in the presence of Christ's glory, he was blinded when Christ removed himself. At this time (the "and when" of vs. 11); Paul simply could not see when normal light was resumed.
I stated in my last post what I simply believe. I cannot vouch for what is a Baptist stance. But I believe Paul saw Christ.
Maybe you could specify what your question is pertaining to.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
And when Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were open, he saw no man. vs. 8
This does not say Paul did not see Christ when he spoke to him.
Ch. 22.11 says and when I could not see for the glory of the light.
this after the completion of Christ's instructions in vs. 10.
Neither of these say Paul did not see Christ, but that for the glory of the light in the presence of Christ's glory, he was blinded when Christ removed himself. At this time (the "and when" of vs. 11); Paul simply could not see when normal light was resumed.
I stated in my last post what I simply believe. I cannot vouch for what is a Baptist stance. But I believe Paul saw Christ.
Maybe you could specify what your question is pertaining to.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas