Reformed Baptists

[atpollard]

If you say NO then that means they were saved prior to creation. No need to hear the gospel, no need to trust in Christ.

False.
It merely means that God really IS in control so there is only one POSSIBLE outcome. A sinner is not “saved” before they are saved, they are merely foreknown and predestined to be called and justified and glorified (that whole Romans 8 thing).

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Then faith is not required as they are already saved according to your theology.


And here you contradict your prior comment.


But according to your own comments those picked out prior to creation could not be lost so faith has nothing to do with their salvation.

You do seem to be rather confused Martin.

One of us is confused, but I think you'll find it's you. My comments could not be clearer. Perhaps you need to read them again, more slowly.

He did not deal with the issue either.

was there any possibility that those picked out could be lost?

That is the issue that you have ignored.

But you said " Of course 'elect before creation' means that those God chooses can never be lost."

So your NO means they were saved prior to creation. No need to hear the gospel, no need to trust in Christ.

I know what scripture says Martin

I really don't think you do.

but the issue is what the Calvinist theology says.

It seems you and David are just ignoring what your theology leads to.

I will reply very quickly because you are obviously being deliberately dense.
1. There is no possibility of any of the elect being lost.
2. Everyone who believes will be saved, and no one else. John 6:37.

As I wrote earlier, the God who ordained the end also ordained the means. If you can't understand that, the problem is yours not mine.

 

[Silverhair]

False.
It merely means that God really IS in control so there is only one POSSIBLE outcome. A sinner is not “saved” before they are saved, they are merely foreknown and predestined to be called and justified and glorified (that whole Romans 8 thing).

You calvinist claim that you were elect in Christ prior to creation.

Since only those that are saved are in Christ then calvinist are making the claim that they are saved.

The bible disagrees with your false view but it seems you would rather trust the word of man rather than the word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

One of us is confused, but I think you'll find it's you. My comments could not be clearer. Perhaps you need to read them again, more slowly.

I really don't think you do.

I will reply very quickly because you are obviously being deliberately dense.
1. There is no possibility of any of the elect being lost.
2. Everyone who believes will be saved, and no one else. John 6:37.

As I wrote earlier, the God who ordained the end also ordained the means. If you can't understand that, the problem is yours not mine.

So you still claim that those picked out prior to creation cannot be lost in other words they are saved prior to them being born so logically also prior to them believing.

Your own words show the error of your theology.

 

[David Lamb]

Your not dealing with the problem David.

David you say certain people were elect prior to creation so the question you have to answer is, was there any possibility that those picked out could be lost?

That is the issue that you have ignored.

If, as Romans 8 tells us, God foreknew, predestined, called, justified, and glorified sinners, then no, there is no possibility that once saved, they could be lost:

NKJV Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

If you say YES then would that not call into question the sovereignty of God?

No. It exemplifies His sovereignty.

If you say NO then that means they were saved prior to creation. No need to hear the gospel, no need to trust in Christ.

That is not so. As Martin said, God also appointed the means by which sinners should be saved, including hearing the gospel, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, and repenting of our sins.

I know what scripture says David but the issue is what the Calvinist theology says.

It seems you and Martin are just ignoring what your theology leads to.

I don't believe so. Rather, I think you misunderstand what Martin and I believe, as we have both tried to tell you many times. Rather, you often seem to tell us what we believe, and that bears little resemblance to what we actually believe.